A-Train to 35th

True, and he was a stud which is why I thought it was a great move when the Sox signed him, I'm just insinuating that something changed and I don't buy the reason for his decline was because he was used as a set-up man instead of a closer. The pressure in April-May-June is different than going to a team that the media claimed now had the best bullpen in baseball and instantly made them a World Series contender. How would you explain Cody Heur suddenly being able to locate the plate and close out games immediately after joining the Cubs?

As much as I dislike the Astro's for taking cheating to another level, one has to give them credit for their defense. Why they cheated is on them, and they probably could have made it to the WS without cheating but the fact is they didn't. In the ALDS against our Sox their fielding was outstanding, they hit the cut-off man, took the extra base, stole 5 bases, threw out the only Sox player who tried to steal, and all around played almost flawless defensive baseball. The Sox tendency to hit ground balls played right into their defensive strength as the infield gobbled up the routine plays and took away hit's heading for the hole. Their pitchers don't look too bad either. I don't think I've ever heard of a team who had 18 hits without any of them going for extra bases, that's amazing.

There are many examples for instance a dropped third strike. Not saying stats lie, but they are not the whole story. You watch the games there are more examples, just listen to Stoney and watch with your eyes instead of burying your nose in statistics. LOL really, grow up it's a discussion about seeing versus reading.

Chicago Suntimes: Heading into the season, the White Sox’ bullpen was projected to be one of the team’s strengths. With the addition of closer Liam Hendriks, this was a vaunted group expected to secure a lot of wins. In April, the Sox’ bullpen had a 4.50 ERA. Its seven blown saves were tied for the most in the majors. That series in Anaheim was alarming. 7 blown saves in the month of April, think about that when wondering why we didn't secure home field advantage over the Astros

Correct, but statistics don't tell the whole story behind every pitch.

I did look at Shields starts the week before the trade because he was unfortunately on my fantasy team. I believe he gave up 10 runs in his start before the trade in a couple of innings. When the trade was made although I knew nothing of Tatis or Eric Johnson I knew based on what Shields had done to my fantasy team that I didn't want him on the Sox.

The eye test for me is attending over 20 games and watching over 100 games on TV.

Wrong, is all I'll say because you seem to enjoy disagreeing with just about everyone even when you say the same thing or don't bother reading what's written. Read my post I thought the Kimbrel trade would put us over the top, but you tend to ignore that part.

I really didn't watch the Cubs that much, although much like Cody Heuer it's much easier to pitch when your team isn't expected to win. In high leverage situations for the White Sox this year Cody didn't do as well as the previous season when the expectations weren't as high as they were this year. Especially after someone from the bullpen I can't remember who made some asinine statement about not giving up an earned run, or something equally as insane. Those expectations were there for Kimbrel when he came to the Sox who were in first place. He hadn't even pitched for the Sox when they came out with that "Pony Tail Gang" and all the declarations by local and national media that the Sox bullpen was the best in baseball. That's a lot of pressure that I believe Kimbrel couldn't handle in his new position as a set-up man. The few games he did close he didn't do much better so I'm not buying that excuse that he would have been better as a closer. My eyes told me the Sox were NOT the best bullpen in baseball and KImbrels failure certainly didn't do much to change my opinion. Let's get one thing clear I loved the Kimbrel signing and thought it was going to put us over the top. As much as I liked Nick and Cody I thought the move was the one that was going to at least make it to the ACLS with the WS a definite possibility. I was wrong we should have traded for Marte, Tepera, and another set-up man.

xwOBA means nothing to me, I go by the eye test and he sucked as a White Sox. Did they use him incorrectly as a set-up man, maybe you could say that was the reason he sucked. If he's that fragile that you can't come in and pitch a clean 8th inning when used that way instead of the 9th as a closer you've lost me.

Your wrong I like Dylan Cease, I'm just frustrated that he tends to walk too many batters instead of relying on his stuff over the plate. Let's hope he get's it fixed because the talent is there.

I saw the stuff Cease had I was watching him warm up behind the catcher before the 2nd game in the bullpen against the Astro's. He was pumped and throwing gas but my observation was he wasn't locating the plate while warming up which had me concerned. I believe he hit 100 or 101 in the game but something happened between the ears that threw his game off. I heard it was some close calls but being at the game I couldn't tell from my vantage point.

Let's hope so, I'm counting on them both to improve. Your right he did basically thow 2 pitches, but why not use all 4. Here's the breakdown. 726 4 seam Fastball (64.4%) 334 Slider (29.6%) 39 Curveball (3.5%) 29 Changeup (2.6%)

What makes you think Kopech is going to pitch any better than he showed us this year. I watch a lot of games and wasn't impressed. Cease, Cease, Cease all I keep hearing is how he has the best stuff which may be true but he's lost between the ears on how to get batter's out consistently. Seems any bad call by the umpires throws his game off which leads to him not being able to locate the plate, which resulted in walks, walks, walks. Rodon not testing the market with Boras as his agent is another one that I'll believe when see it, hope so but you certainly can't count on him being a part of our rotation.

My mistake and good news... I misread the story...The Sox are expected to pick up the option. I thought all this time they had already done so.

I hope I'm wrong is all I'll add.

News flash....they already picked-up the option.

There are also legit reasons showing a pitcher is in a downward spiral. In the two season's prior to his great first half of this year, his era for the Cubs was 6.53 in 2019 and 5.28 in 2020. Add that to the 5.09 he posted with the White Sox in the second half and and I don't believe we'll get much for him without eating some of his salary. You and the Sox may be confident someone will pick-up that 16 million dollars but based on his stats prior and after the first half of this year I'm not. I was at a game during this season and I sat next to a Boston transplant who was there to see his Red Sox, Kimbrel came up and he said if it's any consolation he wasn't confident of his ability when he pitched for them and won the WS. All the GM's know the Sox are backed into a corner by picking up the 16 mil option and that we have no use for two closers making 30+ . Based on that knowledge I doubt the offers will come rolling in. His only good stats in the last three years were the first half of this year without any real pressure to perform since the Cubs were in the rebuild mode after the 11 game losing streak. Time will tell as there's always a desperate sucker, but I doubt that will happen without the club eating more than the 1 million that they could have saved money by cutting bait. Admit it didn't work out and move on.

I believe Marte would have been a much better pick-up at the trade deadline for what the Sox needed at the time which was outfielders. He makes contact and has the defense and speed we lacked during the playoff's

When your paid 16 million to throw a baseball you should be able to clear your head of excuses and throw a strike. He was unable to do that, so eat the 1 million and say goodbye before it ends up costing us 4-5 million and a throw in player we don't need. What we need to do with that money is concentrate on starting pitching and defense. If Rodon leaves, we have Giolito and Lynn and that's about it. Cease is still finding his way, and Kopec & Crochet didn't look too promising in the bullpen since relying solely on their fastball.

Looking at Grandal full seasons in 2019 he had 8 passed balls and in 2021 he had 7. Hardly the problem. Strong pitching which the Sox lacked in the second half of the season was the downfall of the season, that and our outfield defense which besides Robert for only 68 games was terrible.

So if we're not expected to get a high return as I would imagine and we might possibly have to eat salary which would likely be more than the 1 mil buyout, wouldn't it have been cost effective if we ate the 1 mil and said bye bye?

My biggest fear is there will be no offers that come close to what the sox want in return and we end up with Kimbrel for another year, instead of signing a quality RF with the money they could have saved if they let Kimbrel walk. I liked Madrigal, thought Cody had promise just couldn't locate the plate in high leverage situations and at the time thought the Kimbrel trade was going to put us over the top much like when the Cubs traded for Chapman. It didn't happen, so they should have ate the 1 million buyout and cut bait with Kimbrel. Not all trades work so admit when your wrong, and move on instead of trying to get something for Kimbrel which IMO won't amount to much.

Matt Nagy comes to mind

Not sure what you said, but let's face it we're all upset with the team. Personally I think Hahn had enough of the Jerry & Kenny show and will be leaving,