Rounding_Third

He spoke of 8 & 9 man rotations this year for all teams. Said we're not going to see many 200 inning starters due to limited innings last year and Sox will need pitchers with options. Sox 40 man has 7; 1-4 & Rodon, Lopez, & Flores. We'll see how the latter 3 perform in ST. Kopech might get some starts later. Crochet pen only this year. Other SP's including McClure & Kobat could improve their rankings and callup pecking order with good showings. After 1-4, nothing's for certain.

Only 1 other 6 inning game today. There were a bunch of 7's, 2 8's, & 2 9's. WTF!

Stone talked about how they'll be a lot of pitchers used this year; lots of temp callups. 2 guys that may be part of that, McClure & Kubat both showed some nice stuff. Can't wait their next appearances.

Man, I completely forgot about that 1st Sale tantrum. So funny now.

You can think the K-C and wish it all you want. Its not happening; already announced their plans. Strategically, its a bad way to manage innings. It's much more negatively impactful to the team as a SP role if one or both struggle or has a problem. Also, there is no commitment that their long term plans with Crochet is as a starter. There's a decision to be made. He's been in the pen virtually his entire career and there's seems to be a good argument to keep him there. He may throw too hard to be a starter. He may be suited at the back end of the pen. Also, they don't have a long reliever if not Kopech. Tagging him as such gives him the chance to occasionally start as well. Mike Minor's injury history is pretty different. Yes, he had shoulder issues for 2 years but no elbow/TJ and then rebounded . Rodon had shoulder/bicep then shoulder again for 2 years then elbow/TJ then shoulder again over span of 5 years. Much much more damage over 2 1/2 times the duration. Also, the two teams involved, KC & Tex were nowhere near WS contenders at that time of Minor's rehab & recovery & return. They could afford the risk. I hope Kopech has "dazzling stuff" too. Our different here is you penciled him in for still "dazzling" as a given even after TJ surgery just because he had it before. That's a bit of a rush to judgement for me. We'll see! I'm much more cautious as is Katz and the entire org. It's one of the "ifs" for me because it's unknown until he works some significant innings. He may need to reinvent himself a little; become more of a pitcher and less of a thrower. The bullpen is the great place to manage and tweak (if needed) him for a year. It may take that long until they're all confident, including him.

True enough. Just making a point that AV doesn't have to do a heck of a lot to contribute to 2020 improvement. Hope they lay off him learning other positions. Just let him take his std DH/1B game to MLB and it's long season that he's never experienced. Geesh, isn't that enough adjustment for him for now?

I am in the "Vaughn to MiLB" camp. Have been all along. But I accept that its his DH job to lose. Now I will sit back and root and enjoy his potential & progress. I hope he tears up ST and easily wins his chance. If not, we have a bit of a DH issue but not just that. Hoping for him, too, and what he means to an already scary lineup. I'm confident that, at the very least, he will exceed EE's 2020 which is a very low expectation for him and I expect he will be much more than that. I'm also confident that at the end of 2021, we'll all be able to agree that if EE's 2020 was as good as AV's 2021, we would have won the 2020 Central.

Completely agree with you up to the bold. This is where we part company. Its just a continuation of our previous disagreement. Rodon and Lopez cannot be counted on at all. Rodon is a DL just waiting to happen, When you combine TJ with 3 years of reoccurring shoulder injuries, a bicep and a wrist, a WS contender has no business relying on him with an absolute mess behind him in Lopez. Kopech & Crochet are out of the SP picture and I do favor this Sox 2021 plan for them; suggested it weeks ago before they announced. If early planned starters then they would get shut down too early and leave gaps to fill down the stretch. This way, they are both relative & involved throughout most of the season. Though I do believe Kopech should & will get a handful of planned spot starts like in makeup DH's or top 4 skips which will happen. Once they signed Rodon, they kind of locked into him. I wish they had signed another more reliable innings guy for #5. Once signed, he should be #6, at best. That way, he could have proven in Charlotte that he still has an arm. There are lots of "ifs" & "hopes" and nowhere near the SP depth to cover them. For the record, I was not a Bauer advocate due to $.

Hawks too are fun to watch again. Sunday is Sox, Hawks & Bulls same time. Sweeeeet!

Buehrle didn't; just 1 second half year in pen with 3 July starts then all pen after. For Sale 1 & 1/2 years; maybe extra cautious due to his thin frame & arm. Also was use primarily as closer and setup so maybe he's not the good comparison for Kopech I thought.

Agreed that probably been his plan all along. Imo, the mistake in that is its in trade so its now cap spend + prospects/drafts/cash when it only had to be cap spend for a decent mid level SP FA.

The problem I see with that it then they'd have to plug someone in his slot when he retired for the year and most likely earlier than the current plan. This plan may allow him to pitch all year.

If Kopech has no health issues and get his full innings limit, he'll start in 2022 with unlimited innings. If I remember correctly, both Buehrle & Sale did just one bullpen year.

If I had one, I'd live in it.

I'd bet my Aston Martin that Kopech gets about 6-10 planned starts.

Totally agree with this. Cease has such a high ceiling. And his delivery is so smooth and powerful right through his release and follow through; a great baseline to become an outstanding pitcher. If he can be a steadying force, it will go a long way to supporting the terrible lack of SP depth. If not, he could contribute to a domino effect throughout the rotation. Hopefully, Rodon and/or Lopez can reverse their respective fortunes but history says that's unlikely. That they don't cause TLR/EK to use Kopech more than planned; hitting his shutdown prematurely, assuming he has no physical issues either. Or that it causes 1-4 to pitch on 4 days rest too often. If Cease is also on a pitch/innings limit, he's got be efficiently effective. The rotation will probably have bumps that cause them to skip some starts from time to time. There's currently not enough SP depth to cover it all; particularly down the stretch. And this outstanding bullpen can become overtaxed by dog days. It wouldn't surprise me if the Sox force themselves to trade for even 2 SP's and an RP or 2 by the deadline. There'll be lots of 2022 FA SP's for rent and RH/KW have a solid trade history so that's very encouraging, Hope they don't have to go to that well too early but a real possibility. It's baffling that the Sox meticulously & cunningly rebuilt this incredible team over 4 long years but are potentially allowing a baseball fundamental of SP depth to bring headaches & hitches all season. And if this fumbling causes just a handful of inexcusable extra losses, it could significantly effect the final standings. But ST can also bring many surprises; hoping.... Stiever? McClure? Vargas? Other(s)? ...step up & prove worthy of a next level depth role?

You keep using Teheran's 2020 10 era while suffering from covid which for him, was NOT asymtomatic. I've only mentioned it twice but you knowingly keep going there for lack of facts. According to your assessment, I guess the Sox should lose Moncada as well because of his bad 2020 even though their symptoms were nearly identical. Let's see, Lopez 6 era over 210 innings over 2 years and led the league in ER's in 2019 whom Stone said "needs a lot of work" vs Teheran's Covid-suffering 31 innings in 2020 and 350 innings of 3.87 (~4.20 AL) through 2018-19. Got it! Adding the pure nonsense of Teheran not being good since 2016 while accepting Lopez's body of work with just 1 equivalent year out of his 5. which was 3 years ago is extremely disparate. Got it. All your ridiculous rhetoric because you oppose a risk free, cost free evaluation of a quality veteran presence is baffling. Yet you must cheer some of the other invitees like Mike Wright & Matt Tomshaw because they're such better options. I singled out Teheran because of his Tiger deal. If any other available FA vet SP like Leake or Hamels would agree to a similar tryout deal, the Sox would also be remiss not to invite them. if they don't make the roster but showed value then try to work out an acceptable AAA deal, if not, then cut them lose; nothing gambled, nothing lost. If/when other viable options present themselves then trade or release them when applicable. If they were to accept AAA, having that kind of veteran insurance is invaluable given the Sox terrible SP depth, Its pretty simple stuff here. It includes intangibles that don't show up in analytics charts. All done with your silly assessments based on distorted stats.

So a pitcher who just turned 30 is "aging". Too funny!!!! Most people consider that back end prime but whatever! List all the analytics you want, I have no problem with a pitcher who keeps his era near or under 4 over 175+ innings year after year except the only one he didn't out of last 7 that you've chosen to define him by (ignoring his covid 2020). Somehow he must have done something right; right up through 2019. And no, I didn't say Rodon or Teheran, you turned it into that. I said no reason to not look at Terehan for free. That's zero risk, zero cost. Basically if sizing up Rodon for $3m why not Teheran for free. Its a very simple concept, repeat after me, "Free is good". I agree the Sox plan appears to be a trade, if/when needed. At least I hope so. I just hope they're prepared to deal early (May), if needed. Their immediate depth is a 5 year injury case (Rodon), a 2 year 6ish era (Lopez), and an unproven youngster who got pounded in his limited time (Stiever). After that its a crapshoot. The old adage of "you can't win a pennant (playoffs) in April but you could lose one" has never been more in play than with this team right now with its pathetic rotation depth. More is better, honest!

Okay 1 mediocre year out of how many? Yep, "fantasic" was the wrong adj anyway but "very good" fits. You're still missing my point that its a "free" tryout for Detroit. If the Sox had done the same, no telling what could have happened. Rodon is a much higher risk considering he hasn't stayed healthy for 5 years running, The "if he can stay healthy" hope has drastically faded. If he gets through ST healthy, it's a huge victory for him at this point. SP depth is terrible; so thin. Pinning depth hopes on unproven or proven to be bad or always hurt pitchers is a very weak WS strategy. Depending on ST results, Teheran could have make the team or minors deal or cut loose at no cost.

Terheran had Covid last summer. Through 2019 he's been fantastic! And only 30. Why not give him a free tryout is all I'm saying. Considering some of the non roster pitching invitee's, it make no sense to not give him a free look.

Using Santana as your benchmark, it means Teheran has >6 high quality years left. I'd say that's worth a free look. Thanks for proving my point.

For a free tryout? Are you serious? Why would a contending team want Rodon for $3m?

Oh yeah, how could I forget! Probably has that quote bookmarked for easy response. Easier than covering his ears, closing his eyes, and...."LALALALALALALA...." Geesh! What a sweet deal for Tigers!

Per MLBTR; The Tigers have agreed to a contract with free-agent right-hander Julio Teheran, per Jon Heyman of MLB Network. It’s a non-guaranteed deal, though Teheran will earn a $3MM base salary if he makes the Tigers’ roster. He could rake in another $1MM in incentives if he starts 20 games for the team. This vs Sox signing Rodon for same $3 but guaranteed. Who made the smarter deal? Or why couldn't the Sox have done the same exact deal with Teheran whether they signed Rodon or not? How did RH let this happen? So very frustrating!

I'm sure you've seen the details by now. I doubt if the Sox would have gone there. Good for him for waiting it out! I think I understand RH's strategy now anyway. If I counted correctly, there are 67 2022 FA SP's for rent; many of which will be available a month into the season and grow. They'll be positioned to get a good one at a decent price.