greg775

If u are gonna hire Robin ... why didn't they just hire Coop? And make Robin bench coach. Very dumb move IMO.

Answer this seriously... Who would you rather have been named today? Steve Stone or Robin? I'd say Stoney. I think Stoney knows he'll be broadcasting a bad team for a few years.

Is big hurt really the hitting coach? Sox simply HAVE to let Coop make all the pitching moves. Coop has to be THE man who pulls the strings, makes all changes of pitchers.

This is impossible. It goes with my loving our hirings of former Sox players, though. I may be a Robin apologist all next year. This is crazy. We coulda got Francona and we take Robin. I don't even know what to say/think. Paulie is more qualified; so is Omar.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:39 AM) You have three points, not hard to keep track of. 1) Managers don't effect games. 2) Florida will string off multiple championships, because their young manager will...effect games? 3) Bobby and Dye are the exact same players today as in '05. 3.) that's a flatout falsehood. I stood up for Dye in his final season, though, as well as Bob's final season. Bobby wasn't the problem that year, BTW. He had a stretch where he rattled off about 20 or so in a row. It actually was a bit similar to Sergio's season. Sergio blew six saves, too. 2.) Yes he will be in the Hall of Fame. He only needs one more WS title to accomplish that imo. 1.) I told you I look at the big picture in terms of managers. All managers call for the same type crap. Bunts, deciding whether or not to walk a guy, choice of relief pitchers. And everybody this postseason has been exposed for making some mistakes just like Oz.

QUOTE (scenario @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:52 PM) I think Rios is tradeable if the Sox eat $20M of his remaining contract. Should they do this? Absolutely. They'd save about $5M per year off of what they owe now... which would almost pay Quentin's salary. Then, if I'm the new manager, I'd move Quentin back to left to minimize his defensive limitations... put DeAza in center and Viciedo in right. Put me in charge damnit! I'll get it done!! lol Seriously, who would want Rios? Average ballplayer at best at any cost. And not worth the risk in terms of his loafing. I think there's the chance he'll put up average numbers for the Sox next year which would be a good thing.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 12:06 PM) He's one of the top managerial prospects in the game if not #1. Given the direction of the team, hiring a first-time manager probably makes the most sense. What is your problem with Martinez? Does he not make enough funnies for you? I have one problem with him. Francona is available.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 03:17 PM) Dunn's first game this year... he was awesome. I thought the Sox would be unstoppable. That f***ing appendectomy ruined all of his momentum. Bingo. You have just hit on the angle of every reporter/broadcaster surrounding Adam Dunn this offseason and next spring training. We are gonna hear "a lot" about the appendectomy ruining everything for Dunn. He'll report 10 pounds lighter as well. Now whether that weight total will be correct or not, who knows? But it'll be 10-15 pounds lighter, a new committed HEALTHY Adam Dunn ... in the media and Sox promotions at least.

So you guys get your wish. I won't bury him. I hope he succeeds.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:37 AM) Do you know what a headcase even is? Hint: a guy who punches his own bat during a playoff push. How many years ago was that? Seems to me he worked some on his temper/demeanor. I thought he was good this year. Had decent numbers, not great. He's definitely worth being our starting rightfielder next season IMO.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) I say look at Ozzie. He quit on the team for more money QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 11:03 PM) That's what ludicrous backtracking arguments do for you. 1.) Oh cmon. We are modern sports big boys here. It was a power play between Ozzie and Kenny and Ozzie lost it. It was a pure 1-1 battle, mano a mano and Jerry picked the pretty boy/suck up KW over Oz, who was a little too busy managing a team daily than to go suck up to Jerry and convince him Kenny was the devil. This quitting on the team is bulls***. He quit, what, a day before the end of the season? Rios quit in April. Dunn IMO at least tried, but hit as well as you could have hit for this team. Yes, you could have probably hit .160 if you got in shape at least, enough to swing a bat. Jim Kaat could have hit .160. 2.) I'm glad you guys remember so many of my points. I take that as a compliment. If I didn't get under your skin with my sometime logical arguments, you wouldn't be so upset as to remember my position on things. My ludicrous arguments sure get quoted a lot on here. I consider that a moral victory.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 09:47 PM) I'm ready for the headcase to be gonezo. I don't think it's fair to call the guy a headcase. It seemed to me he actually tries when he's on the field unlike his zombie-like teammates (there are some exceptions; Pierre, DeAza hustled a lot IMO). He hit 24 homers with 77 rbi in 118 games. Not great, but if Rios put up these numbers he'd be worshiped. Carlos had .340 OBP and .499 SLG. Compared to some guys on our team he was Albert Pujols-like. I agree we probably can't get much for our all-star but he's not a bum either.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 07:51 AM) Because it was a stupid decision. Managers f*** up. Some f*** up more than others. Ozzie is in that latter group. But my point is if Ozzie does that and we lose the series, that is remembered as THE DECISION that cost us the series. We couldn't overcome that decision by Oz. Just as many people still think our whole season was defined by Juan's 2 muffs in April. I say look around, all the losing managers are catching big-time heat.

Add LaRussa to the group. They were blasting him tonight for having his pitcher bat late with 2 men on base in a scoreless game or whatever the score was. Cardinals lose and skipper gets heavy heat. This is hilarious for an Ozzie lover like me to watch the losing managers get heat EVERY NIGHT in the playoffs. It's like Roy Williams used to say when he was at Kansas: "The only way to shut them up is to win." (A variation of Just Win Baby).

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 04:12 AM) I don't know. I guess I'd rather a team with a payroll 100 million lower than the one it beat for the wildcard make it to the dance. Ozzie's overpaid White Sox can't even get to the dance, and the last time they did the Rays gave then a swift ass whooping. Making it to the dance and losing to the same team at home two years in a row doesn't normally make for happy fans. Me thinks there are some Maddon haters tonight in Florida. If anybody truly cares down there which is debatable.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 04:26 AM) But a new manager won't be batting a guy hitting .160 cleanup in August. Greg, why can't you admit Guillen is a terrible manager and a coward? He quit on your favorite team and you can't stop throwing him compliments. He's a f***ing idiot and deep down you know it. One day you'll realize this, most likely next season when the new manager does something smart like look at basic stats or put his players in their best places to succeed. Hopefully this new manager will also drop some quotables so we're all happy. OK so he'll be batting sixth? Would that be much better? I don't think I'd still be on this board w/out suspension calling somebody a f***ing idiot. Could you edit that? That's not right. He's not a f***ing idiot IMO. He quit on the team?? Cmon. I think you are way off base. The new manager will succeed if the players hit the ball, catch it and pitch it well.

Not meaning to flame at all, but do the Rays losing to the same team two years in a row and getting faceplanted AT HOME by Texas change anybody's opinion of Maddon and/or Martinez? Texas is good, but what's up with getting smoked at home like that two years in a row? I don't think that woulda played well if it had been the Sox in the playoffs losing to the same team two years in a row and getting eliminated at the Cell. I realize Maddon/Martinez did a nice job rallying past Boston, but quick exits in the playoffs are not ideal.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 12:16 AM) I rarely second guess Ozzie. I usually make my mind up about things before the fact and I'm sure a lot of the posters on this board do as well. If Ozzie brings in Will Ohman to face 3 right handers I know that's going to be a bad move. Even if it works out this time, the probability of it working out the next time is relatively low. And I don't think anybody was "bagging" on Manuel for not taking Lee out. My roommate is a die hard Phillies fan and he blamed Lee more for sucking, which he kind of did. I know on Baseball Tonite they were ripping Manuel for not walking Pujols. They had no problem with leaving Lee in, just walking Albert with a man on third and first base open.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 02:03 AM) Was Ramon Santiago really sac bunting in the 1st against AJ f***ing Burnett? Probably. It's my opinion that many if not all managers make what we would deem bonehead decisions. It's just that we tend to watch OUR team and don't notice said decisions from other managers most of the time.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 03:48 AM) Gordon Beckham Dayan Viciedo Brent Morel Alejandro De Aza (not exactly a kid, but a minor leaguer) Tyler Flowers That could quite easily be half the lineup where Ozzie would have played maybe 2 out of 5 I can't believe grown adults, people I respect on here, still think that Ozzie should have benched Rios and Dunn. It slays me. You are gonna be just as frustrated with the new manager when he plays guys who make the loot.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 10:08 PM) I still think it is Alomar, I think Dave Martinez goes to Boston. Alomar needs some seasoning, and I don't see any other team offering him a gig. Martinez, price tag if the Red Sox get in the mix might be too high, for letting the kids play. I agree 100 percent.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:55 PM) Well, managers are all the same anyway, so it doesn't matter who we get, right? Not if the managers are total buffoons like Bevington. Not saying Martinez is that. You guys pull all my quotes out of context whenever I make a long post. Ridiculous.

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 08:29 PM) Why do we need to do anything about the catching situation? It's KW/JR's fault we backloaded AJ's contract. It's for one more season, not at an absurd price (ala Rios, Dunn, Peavy), and he's still good. Keep him and play him 4-5 games a week while Flowers gets 1-3 games a week. It won't be a platoon situation but you could certainly take advantage of the righty/lefty matchups. This gives Flowers a chance to keep learning the staff and study under Pierzynski, whether Pierzynski is actually going to "tutor" him or not. After that hopefully Flowers is ready to take over in 2013. If AJ is on the team, IMO there's no way the new manager sits him 3 games a week, unless he DHs one of those games. If he's not playing 5 or 6 out of every seven, I bet you see a rift with AJ and the new manager, which the new manager won't want. Did you see the one postgame presser where the Mets' manager was crying recently about letting Reyes sit out most of that final game? He said he spent the year trying to earn the players' respect and he was fine with doing Reyes the favor. The Sox new manager can't afford to run afoul of AJ. So if AJ is healthy, Flowers will get Castro-like playing time, not much at all.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:23 PM) 5 minutes ago would have been a good time. So Martinez is officially this season's backup quarterback guy. The guy every fan has to have, for no real reason except Sox fans like the fact he's a Sabes guy. The Rays, who play in the biggest, baddest division in baseball, just got blown away by the Rangers. I have nothing against the guy, but anybody who thinks he is a savior, just tell me why. In my mind, he's no different from Alomar. If Martinez truly is going to receive a lot of offers, I bet the only way the Sox get him is with a 4 year contract. Sox are a team going downhill unless KW reworks the roster fast. No way in hell he'd choose Chicago over Boston if all these teams truly want him. My guess is it's Alomar in a runaway in a cost effective move as the team tries to rebuild.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 05:30 AM) That would mean Jerry Manual wasn't a bad manager. After all, he had to go through growing pains (first time manager when he first signed on with the Sox) as well and was over .500 as a Sox manager. Ozzie Guillen is not a player, he's a manager. Yes, managers learn and they evolve, but Ozzie's too thickheaded to let anything influence his gut. So no, there's no guarantee he becomes a better manager anytime soon. The White Sox didn't train Ozzie as a manager. He was a manager here from the start, if anything he learned under McKeon and the guys on the Marlins staff. Plus, why is it so important to have guys who used to play here as managers? Who the hell cares? Just be a good manager, I don't care if they played with the Yankees their entire career. How do you know they will make mistakes? I'm willing to bet those guys are better in-game managers than Ozzie already. It's dealing with the players that new managers need to get a hang of and it appears Martinez does that quite well. I don't know about Alomar. Why should Manuel get fired if the Phillies don't win the WS? Sure, that would come short of their expectations, but that team's won 5 consecutive NL East titles and they've gone to at least the NLCS for the past 3 seasons. If the Sox were doing that, Ozzie would still be here. And why should Washington get fired? That team got to the WS last year and they won 96 games this year. Managers don't get blasted unless they make some horrible moves. Perhaps letting Lee pitch in the 7th in game 2 was a bad move by Manuel, I thought Lee should have been taken out given his pitch count and his ineffectiveness in previous innings, but if the Phillies lose to the Cards these next two games, Manuel isn't really responsible for it unless he makes more bad moves, moves that are even worse than that. Sometimes, managers make bad moves that have a positive influence on the game. Then there's the other time where a manager makes a move so bad that it is bound to fail, like hitting Adam Dunn against a lefty in the late innings or letting Adam Dunn pinch hit in the late innings period. Ozzie did that a couple of times this year and it was obviously the wrong move. Not only because it was against the odds, but that it was so against the odds that it was bound to fail badly. People have said this before: one bad move isn't going to turn the fans on you, a lot of bad moves will. Ozzie's done exactly that, as most of this board thinks. The issue with your opinion is that it is in the extreme minority on this board (which is not indicative of every Sox fan, but do realize that this board is filled with very knowledgeable hard core fans). If everyone else thinks differently, you might want to think about why. We didn't all hate Ozzie from the start. I didn't really mind him until 2010 rolled around. And I definitely agree that the players decide the game. That's a given, but the manager puts the players on the field and if that includes giving Adam Dunn and Alex Rios the majority of plate appearances instead of Viciedo or De Aza, then the manager is costing the team a lot more than you think. I appreciate the long post. I disagree with some of it, but I don't think you or anybody else wants me to reiterate my position on Ozzie. It's more of the same. If u have a specific question I'll respond. I mainly get a kick out of the postseason cause normally the games are close and when a team loses, the team's fans can squarely point at some managerial decisions. I laugh cause I hear it all year about Ozzie's decisions, but now that everybody's watching these games, I get to FINALLY hear people bag on managers not named Ozzie. Lots of bad decisions cause when u lose a game you can always second guess the manager.