greg775

If we win this game, El Rockin looks good for not giving up. Then tomorrow's game is huge ... we're either 2-4 this year vs. KC, dropping two series in a row to them. Or we're a dandy 3-3 vs. KC. I'm not counting anything yet ... not with this horrid bullpen.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:35 AM) Greg, you are a good man. Just keep being there is all you can really do. Godbless Thanks train. My friend is hoping her daughter gets her brain function back but the doctors say it won't happen. I am not sure what even happened. She had stomach problems for a month where she couldn't keep food down then a seizure and was unconscious and bam, the brain activity wiped out. Thank u.

I hate to be a negative prick, but we have no chance in this game. Sox lost all the mojo it had. Yes at one point we were so hot and confident we had a chance to play with KC and beat KC. Now forget it. We are fodder for them. Look for about 5-7 wins against KC this year 12 to 14 losses. Sorry but that's the case. After last night, today is a no brainer KC victory. There is momentum in baseball. KC owns us and has set the tone at 3-1 vs. Chicago in four games this season already. Today should be something like 7-3 or 7-1 KC

QUOTE (South Sider @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:37 AM) Your point is well acknowledged. Well, when I am ready to enter the workforce in that capacity I am going to make myself as marketable as possible. I am going to investigate companies that I want to work for (companies with solid values, and yes I know there probably aren't many of them) and relentlessly apply for their jobs. In the meantime, which could potentially be awhile after I graduate, I will retain my excellent retail job to make ends meet. I can't speak for other millenials because my situation is unique. I suppose millenials who absolutely need to have a giant house and all the best toys will need to suck it up and do what it takes to hit the ceiling of their careers. However, I imagine that many millenials can do with less and live a happy life. For me it is not all about being at the top of the food chain and making six figures. If the opportunity cost of achieving such a goal means scarce family time and little leisure/individual time, then I don't think I'd set to achieve such a goal so long as I'm not living in poverty for it. Interesting. There are a lot of expensive houses in suburbia and two car garages that will need to be filled in the future. Maybe parents will just hand those houses down to their millenial kids. Not blasting you, but desire to have all the toys and a white picket fence around a mansion of a house has seemed to attract a lot of people in the Western Suburbs for years. Those mortgages will have to be paid and those SUV's bought. You're gonna have to have a heckuva job to pay all the $$$.

QUOTE (aryzner @ May 28, 2016 -> 03:38 AM) Doesn't hurt so bad when you expect to lose like I do. When they took the lead I said to myself, "They'll find a way to f*** this up." Sure enough, they did. Try it sometime. True. Last 3 years I've learned to expect to lose. Again at 23-10 it was so 'different.' I was starting to get used to non dysfunctional baseball. Tonight didn't shock me or anger me in the least. It was obvious we were cooked after the Rollins keeping the ball in his mitt. Funny thing is we were up 5-1. You'd think Royals would be close to chalking it up to one of those 60 u gonna lose every year no matter what.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:09 AM) The mind boggling thing is that Rollins should be out of the game for defensive reasons late. The stupidity of this team has become something. It would be insulting to the Hall of Famer (Hawk's words) if you took him out late for defense. He was a dumb pickup. He's too old.

QUOTE (aryzner @ May 28, 2016 -> 05:02 AM) I'd forgotten Nick Cage has been in so many intense scenes. What was the deal with him reading the alphabet there? What kinda movie was that one?

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:59 AM) He has no ability to light a fire under his players when it's needed most. The season ended when Texas ended our dream start and knocked us down to reality .. hard. Loss after loss after loss has followed that Robin/Carroll-led choke job. I still say Carroll and Albers couldn't strike out Fathom or Caufield in a 1-on-1 confrontation. They blow. Duke isn't much better. Nate is beloved by those on this board.

Thank God I didn't go to that game with my 3 KC friends tonight. I'd have been on my feet after Melky's homer, then started worrying after Hosmer proved KC wasn't just gonna lose 5-1, then start sweating when Rollins didn't throw the ball, then slither in my seat crushed as KC blazed past us and their fans went wild. Then been mesmerized by the fireworks Fridaynight show.

QUOTE (harkness @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:40 AM) I predict we will finish 3rd in the Division. Hopefully they will make me eat crow... lets try some reverse karma. But yeah I'm expecting 3rd in the division. Royals will win it again, thanks in part to how they dominate the Sox BTW; can't believe they didn't play a DH today to sweep us while they are hot and we are not. Cleveland will take second, only missing playoffs by a whisker Detroit will take third; they get to play us 19 times, folks Sox fourth Twins fifth Only way this changes if we bring up Anderson and Davidson and they turn into phenoms and re-ignite the flame and get the South Side excited while at the same time acquiring a starter and another team's (a seller's) closer to go with Robertson on the back end.

I've figured out ONE way in the future to make the Sox less dysfunctional and maybe a .500 team again. (This team isn't a .500 team). OK ... we have to copy the Yankees old deal where as a large market team we acquire TWO closers. Now the Sox bullpen has been really really poor the Ventura era. It's so bad now it's unfathomable it could be this bad. Robertson, however, is GREAT. What we need is another closer to become the setup man. With LIGHTS OUT relievers to close it down, your odds of winning grows substantially. I'm serious. What do you think of my plan??? The last time we had two good ones was when ... when Thonrnton was still great? Before he turned to s***? Every year we acquire guys in the bullpen that on paper SHOULD be able to get some outs. Every year they turn into JAGs, (Just Another Guy). Folks .... Hahn needs to acquire two highly paid closer types. It's the only way to reverse this curse of rotten bullpen. The longer we pretend stiffs like Albers, Duke, Petricka, etc., I could name 20 if I looked up the rosters of the last couple years, the longer we are going to SUCK at a maximum winning rate of about .480. BUILD A BACK END OF THE BULLPEN HAHN.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ May 28, 2016 -> 03:42 AM) I knew they'd blow this game the instant they got the lead. I knew it was over when Rollins didn't throw to first and the bags were loaded. I also had an inkling when Hosmer responded to us getting the lead with that solo homer. Curse of our bullpen. QUOTE (Baron @ May 28, 2016 -> 03:44 AM) Seriously Robin should be sent home after this game. I mean it's way too obvious he's a major issue. At 23-10 I thought we had a winner in Robin. We were rattling off win after win and I thought he'd aged nicely into a top manager. QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 28, 2016 -> 03:51 AM) Boy is Abreu suddenly a lard ass bag of nada That made me laugh for some reason. Kind of a funny sentence. QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ May 28, 2016 -> 03:52 AM) This team quit. Yep. The night of the Rangers game the season was over. QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ May 28, 2016 -> 03:53 AM) The second you saw Albers coming into this game you knew what was coming. At least with Purke or Kahnle there is some doubt that the lead will be blown, with Albers there is none. Albers is the definition of a gas can. True. I firmly believe they should put Albers on the DL and send him down and get him to lose 20 pounds. Seriously. He may have 'some' ability; give up on him now and get the body sculpted better. QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ May 28, 2016 -> 03:56 AM) Well...at least Im not from Missouri. In a way its impossible to come out of KC a "loser" relative to these yokels who are from there. That's kind of harsh. Kansas is a s***ty state because of Brownback and the bizarre weather but ?? QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:04 AM) Except when you predict disaster every single time Albers and Duke enter and are right more than 75% of the time. Have to TRY something different. I don't care if Duke's getting paid $5 million or whatever this season and next to get out lefties. He's not getting the job done for a pretty good stretch now. Tigers are on their way to being 2 1/2 games back. Who cares about the Tigers? Scoreboard watching is dumb this time of year. We've already shown we're not a contender. The only victory formula for this team was the formula used during our hot streak and odds of that were slim to continue. That is ... have INCREDIBLE starting pitching, not just good. Then you rely on your relievers for just an out or two plus three from the closer. Also good to great defense. The hitting sucked even when we were hot. Once the pitching dropped down from INCREDIBLE to average (bullpen way below average) this team started to lose and lose big. This team actually blows. No margin for error unless starting pitching was like it was for a month. Unusually amazing. Now it blows. QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:20 AM) That April looks like fool's gold. Honestly it is hard to judge a team after the first month since guys are still finding their groove and getting in the swing of things (no pun intended). I liked 23-10 but didn't care about the standings. There were over 100 games left for gosh sakes. Meant nothing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:13 AM) This will be the 4th loss on Albers, I think all of them since the Orioles' series. Is baseball the only sport you can go from a potential all-star to a total bum in the span of a couple weeks? Right now he needs to be released or go on the DL a month after being dominant for a month. That one year Humber pitched a no hitter I believe and ended up getting released that season.

Well that was unpleasant. Only one thing you were sure of. No way in hell were Navarro and Avi and Rollins getting a hit off Davis. That was three guys ridiculously overmatched.

QUOTE (shipps @ May 27, 2016 -> 04:59 PM) I actually get frustrated trying to explain this to my wife. When things dont go her/our way she tends to let it affect her more than it should. She is not alone but I tend to still be happy during these times and she mistakenly recognizes it as if I dont care. I just know that the truly important things are all good so I am going to still be happy. Thanks for the kind thoughts all. Shipps I do think we have to daily remind our significant others to not sweat the little stuff and even tell them stories like the one I reported here. You just have to realize how fortunate you are. I mean we all think we are so busy, which we are. But in a minute, you get cancer and your daughter catches some stomach ailment and next thing you know she'll never function as an adult again ... now you have problems. It's so sad. I don't understand. I told my friend that I realize she wasn't given cancer to be an example to others, but I do "use" her as a reminder that things I consider hassles are not real problems. SHE has real problems. We know each other well so she understood what I was trying to say. Now with this happening to her daughter, there are no words. It's too horrifying to consider saying anything like that. Not that the cancer isn't horrifying enough.

QUOTE (South Sider @ May 27, 2016 -> 04:37 PM) I am one of those kids who are still stuck at home. I suppose that first I'll explain how my individual situation went down, and then explain why I believe this is occurring and what my final thoughts are on the subject from my millenial point-of-view. My parents split up while I was in middle school. After high school, I could live with my mom rent-free if I went to college. If not, I had to pay some kind of rent. I was pretty much an idiot at those times, and didn't care a lick for school so I dropped out of community college. My father was going through some rough times. I won't go into details but I was able to live there rent-free until I was 20, which I'm sure my mom wasn't very pleased with. Luckily for me I didn't blow off all of high school; only most of it. I had two internships and had classes that built computer repair and networking skills. The second internship turned into a full time job for a little bit after high school until the owner sold the company. I was able to keep my job for awhile, but the writing was on the wall. Around the age of 19, I was laid off. Without a job to speak of, I was pretty much lost into my 20th year. My buddy who was also laid off ended up moving back with his folks a few states away and landed a similar job. He told me they had room for another technician, and I was ready for a change of scenery so I got out on my own! Things were good. Business was booming and after a short adjustment phase at my buddies folks house, we rented a house with our boss and his new wife. This lasted for about a year until things deteriorated rapidly and we had to move back into my buddies parents house. I lived there longer than I had liked, but the job was going south as well and income was becoming tighter and tighter. The hope was to get an apartment, but when I realized the job wasn't going anywhere, I decided to move back to Illinois. Shortly after moving back I landed a retail job with a lot of promise. I started getting full time hours and consistent pay checks so I worked out a rent agreement with my father. This is the point where I could have moved out. I could have paid a bunch more in rent and lived paycheck to paycheck. I could have moved into a big rented party animal house down the street and hated every sober moment of it. But my father had an unused room. I buy my own food. I contribute to household chores and tasks. Finally, I suspect my father would be lonely without me around. The big plus is that I was able to save some money. About a year ago, I started gunning for a managerial position at my job. It would change everything. I would be making considerably more money, and definitely be able to afford an apartment without having to resort to incredible frugality. I'll be honest. I don't indulge myself a lot with material items, but I also want to be able to enjoy some of the money that I slave for. Trips to places like Cedar Point with my girlfriend and visits to my mother (who now lives in Arizona). Nice dinner dates every now and then, Sox games, craft beer, steaks etc. However, I had a realization about the managerial position that completely changed my plan. The first is that the managers in a store work hours that are incredibly demanding physically and mentally. If you've heard of a waterfall schedule, it's kind of like that. An example would be: Tuesday 1PM-11PM Wednesday Noon-10PM Thursday 8AM-6PM Friday 6AM-4PM Saturday 5AM-3PM Sunday Monday Off There are some areas of this schedule that are less than ideal for families, and I am a firm believer that your family is the #1 thing in your life, not work. I don't want my relationship with my girlfriend or my future kids to suffer because I work such a demanding schedule. The second realization was that to become a store manager (the head honcho of the store, who makes much more money and can work whatever schedule they like so long as it is 50 hours per week) was close to an insurmountable task for most managers. The first problem is that almost every manager wants to be a store manager. Competition is all well and good here, but the second problem is that there are simply not enough locations in this company. They only open a couple of locations a year, and it's not like current store managers are in a hurry to retire. I've seen firsthand many amazing regular managers toiling away for 10+ years hoping that their name would be called soon for store manager. However, only one location opened in this region alone last year with none that I know of set to open this year. I realized I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to toil away for 10+ years working my ass off, and I didn't want to put my girlfriend (fiance soon) and future kids through that. Call me a lazy millenial if you wish, but I simply do not view it that way. My girlfriend is finishing up her bachelors and is in the process of deciding whether or not to go for a masters. She will be working some kind of 9-5 job Monday through Friday. My weird managerial schedule just would not jive with hers. So I made the decision to go back to school and continue working part-time at my retail job. I wish I had decided to go back to school earlier; I am 28 years old now. It is what it is, though. The retail job for store employees is actually fantastic. In 5 years I went from $10.50/hour to $17.35/hour. They offer retirement packages so I opted into one awhile ago and have been building it up. These benefits kept me chugging along as a store employee without giving a thought to schooling. Boredom has started to creep in, though, as well as a revitalized urge to continue bettering myself. With some of my savings, I am able to finance my schooling at community college for the time being. Subsidized loans and the American Opportunity Tax Credit help immensly. I also hope to qualify for a Pell Grant next year. I still live at my dads, and I wanted it to be clear and okay with him that while I am going back to school, I will be working less (which should help me qualify for a Pell Grant). We arranged a new rent agreement, and he supports me in my quest for an education. It is certain that after I get my bachelors or maybe even my associates that I will be moving out and getting a place with my girlfriend, and finally stop bothering my father by living with him for so long. Greg, I heard that statistic that you mentioned as well on a newsflash from WDCB 90.9. Despite who or what you may listen to, the statistic is real. I think that a lot of parents are recognizing that the economic landscape of today is not as good as when they were our age, so they give their young adults more leash. Both of my parents never completed college and they were able to buy a house and other nice things. This is just not possible today. In my composition class, I wrote a paper about how I believe many Americans are overworked and in my paper I discuss how the cost of living has risen, productivity has risen and at the same time wages have remained relatively stagnant. At the same time, the rich keep getting richer and wealth inequality continues to worsen, which is another contributing factor. There's a lot of good information here if you care to look: http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ If anyone is interested in reading my paper, I'm rather proud of it and would love to share it with you. Just send me a PM and I'll e-mail you a copy. I can't speak for all millenials, just myself, but I am not going to perpetuate society down that path. I place real value on my free time and I will fight for a society that accepts free time as part of our culture. I surmise that a lot of what is perceived to be "lazy millenials", like those who expect inflated vacation time simply have a different way of viewing life in general, perhaps similar to mine. For sure, as things are now, employers now who are old school are going to hire those who don't want vacation time or inflated free time. That's just how it is right now. If I am correct, and many millenials view things as I do, then eventually society will shift as the millenials become the dominant generation. I think this is a really good thing as I believe that America is trending towards being overworked. Somethings going to have to give, and if it is a generation that all the super hard workers view as lazy, entitled brats that shifts America from overworking themselves to something better for future generations, then I think that is great. I don't want my children to grow up in a country where it is expected to basically live to work. I want them to be able to work hard, get what they deserve for it, and also have enough time for their families and to grow themselves individually. I appreciate this post and your heartfelt commentary. I do have a question. You are right about Millenials wanting to balance work life and home life and they don't want to work 60-70-80 hours a week like we do. My question is ... how do you handle this now? It's going to be a while before Millenials are in charge of all the companies and can make sure their employees have a lot of free time/vacation time. How do you survive in the interim. I hear law offices are making the Millenials work just as much as the older folks are used to. Are Millenials quitting their jobs once they realize the jobs control their lives completely? This mixing and matching of generations would appear to hurt the Millenials because they will quit or be fired when the old codgers put amzing demands on their time.

If you are mad that you are stuck in traffic ... or have to spend the weekend helping your sister move to a new apartment or have to cut the grass or have to go to some neighborhood block party you don't want to go to ... or have to take your wife to some wedding where you'll know nobody and don't want to go ... please consider the case of my good friend in suburbia and realize the small stuff should not be sweat. I'll make it quick. ... A good friend of mine has been battling breast cancer for more than a year. Complications galore. Not an early stage cancer. Radiation f***ed her up pretty badly causing nerve damage that may be irreversable. Chemo hit her hard. Once she gets done with chemo in July will need to rest up for 2 surgeries this fall or winter. If all goes well she will finally be free of cancer and on the mend after a year and a half of living hell with her only physical concern how to deal with the nerve damage/horrible pain. This person who has 2 adult kids living with her (not to help her necessarily, but her to help them have a place to live as in the thread I started before) and one high schooler last week found her perfectly healthy 26 year old daughter seizing and unconscious at her apartment after she went over to check on her. She had epilepsy as a teen but medications were controlling it. An ambulance took her to hospital where she had to go to ICU. She has irreversable brain damage and right now is functioning as a 6 year old. Prognosis is she may get "a little" bit of her short and long term memory back after intense and incredible rehab, etc. Remember, this young bright 26 year old paralegal was functioning normally one week ago and now her life is at best as a severely disabled person. My friend said she "feels as if she is going through the motions of living" and is "devastated" and "paralyzed with fear but trying to act positive on the outside." Daughter is to move into her house tomorrow. I remain a believer in God but do not understand why this has been placed on her and her daughter. Perfectly normal healthy daughter one day ... BOOM. My question to you is ... what the hell do you say to your friend? I told her no words could describe how I feel and asked her to stay strong please. Try to remember the real life struggles people are going through if you are the type to freak out about/be concerned with little things like I am. The old saying is true. If you have your health and a roof over your head and your loved ones are healthy and happy that is all that matters. DONT SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF PLEASE. If this thread bores you merge it into some other file or kill it. I don't mean to bore or be controversial.

QUOTE (SpankyEaton @ May 27, 2016 -> 04:56 AM) This is definitely an interesting thread. Thanks. Somebody was accusing Greg of trolling. Just discussing stuff here.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 26, 2016 -> 10:23 PM) If they really are that bad, who made them that way? I thought I made it clear I blame parents. My "participation trophy" rambles are directed at parents. I also despise parents who storm in to see teachers to complain about Johnny's grades. Now if you want to know what Johnny can do to avoid getting a C- or D in the future, fine, but don't blame the teacher if Johnny sucks at Math or can't write a sentence please. QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 27, 2016 -> 01:21 AM) Don't you listen to right wing talk radio like Limbaugh? Not exactly a reliable source of accurate information. And Meghan McCain. I'd watch the cable TV shows but they anger me with what I perceive as bias. QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 27, 2016 -> 04:07 AM) I never said I was anything special. I get tired of the loudest voices coming from those who expect to have things handed to them. I don't think studying for interviews is a unique or novel idea. I feel like it's a requirement. I am shocked at how many people don't do that. My point also remains that these kids just keep staying in college longer with no real purpose and act like the people graduating the last 15 years didn't also have student loan debt. It's very confusing. Kids that go to college 6 1/2 to 7 years for a degree in English or History or other liberal arts should be criticized fully. Get it done in 4 to 4.5 especially if daddy is paying.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 26, 2016 -> 11:32 PM) https://internationalschoolsreviewdiscuss.w...teven-e-hudson/ Thought Greg would enjoy this one, although it's on "entitled" students from all around the world, moreso than Americans. The problem is everywhere, not just the US. I think it's fair to say the default belief from most American parents is that they would like to pay for at least half...and maybe they believe that summer jobs and part-time work (weekends, mostly) will meet that gap, along with student loans to supplement. I'm kind of in the middle of this. Pretty spoiled only child, my two best friends went to Northwestern and I went to Iowa because 1) I was studying English/History/Political Science and 2) I thought I was doing my parents a favor saving them money and didn't feel justified spending the money it took for a school like NU or ND. After my father died and I realized that it wouldn't have been unreasonable financially, I still felt it was the right decision, because I never had any student debts and have been a teacher/non-profit worker for most of my life now, so why burden myself or family with debt that's harder to pay off at a lower salary? I do think that when you don't have to work (except for summertime in university) at all in fast food or retail, you miss out on an important (and humbling experience). Being allowed to travel, to play sports year-round, I just assumed it was that way for all kids...but I was actually very privileged to have all those opportunities in life and appreciate them more now than I did back then. And having the financial ability to help, it seems cruel not to do so...at least 50%. Don't have to worry about it now, though, as son is only 15 months old. (For now, the biggest debate is how long to stay in China and improve his Chinese/math/science skills vs. the allure of free and high-level education back in the US in Iowa). Thanks, great article. I can only imagine what grade school teachers go through if they are "hard graders."

That storm that passed through Lawrence to the west of Kauffman was mighty bad and scary. Still got a lot of lightning going on. NCAA track meet is here and they are f***ed considering it's supposed to keep storming 4-5 days. These pop up storms are nasty.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 26, 2016 -> 11:59 PM) They are the defending champs. If I were them, with the goodwill of a world series, I'd be potentially buying. No one is running away with this division. Good god...sell off cause of some injuries. I agree. Really all they need is a Shields/Cueto type of No. 1 guy they can trade for at the break. The bullpen thing they have going is still good as long as they get the good Soria, not the bad one. That potentially will keep them mediocre. Soria can screw up their whole bullpen thing.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 26, 2016 -> 11:04 PM) I went to a pretty wealthy high school(shut up Brian) and almost none of the people I knew had their college paid for by their parents and this was a decade ago. That shocks me. Mom and dad just sent you packing to a good college and said, "Deal with the costs?" For me, growing up in Chicago, later suburbia, any of my friends whose parents had a lot of cold, hard, cash definitely paid for their kids' college. In my case I had summer jobs and stuff and paid for all my incidentals, but yes I was spoiled by daddy in that regard. Free room, board, tuition, books and even made sure I had some money in the bank.Like chisox said I think he felt it was his responsibility to get me through and yes hoped I could pass it down. Now being a successful businessman and kind of a mean guy, not a patsy, he monitored what was going on with my grades, etc. And he made it clear no five year plan for me. Four years baby. I think as long as he felt he wasn't taken advantage of, five, six year plan, he'd dish out the costs of college.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ May 26, 2016 -> 10:41 PM) greg with yet another silly troll post... Parents paying for college? Some sure but it's getting too expensive even for them! I hear stuff on the radio (haven't watched much TV the last year or so except sports) in the car and it intrigues me. Heard the item about all those kids living at home and it strikes me as very interesting. So I post bout it. It's life, not trolling.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 26, 2016 -> 10:40 PM) Greg - Who is getting taken advantage of. All of these parents who are allowing it to happen, have control, and they are allowing it to happen. This isn't them doing it against their will. Maybe some of them are upset, but lets face the realities of today's environment. Be realistic. Everyone always wants to blame everyone else or feel better about what they've done vs. recognizing that things can be different and that is okay (and not a negative against new generations). What young people today can accomplish can be pretty incredible given technological advances, etc. How many 20 year old were bagillionaires back in the 50's or 70's or even 80's? Think of the Zuckerberg's and whomever else who are self made trillionaires at such incredibly young ages. The ability to invent and come up with revolutionary technology or processes (Airbnb / Uber), etc, is incredible. Oh and a degree isn't a differentiator in today's day and age, it is a necessity and a bare minimum. People need to figure that out first and foremost, it is the equivalent of what a high school degree was when you graduated. So for you, having a college degree differentiated you....it doesn't differentiate the typical college grad today. I am near certain that overall employment rates for college grades are probably far lower now than they were back when there were fewer college grads, etc. Bottom line, I actually think it is worse for the people who just want to spend time belitting everyone else (which is just an indirect way of telling everyone how amazing they are) should do a 180 and take an ego check. You think a lot of these people don't want to live on their own and be independent. It is there own ego check given the state of the economy and the difference in value of a college education today vs. a generation or two generations ago (along with the fact that the inflation adjusted costs differ greatly as well). Great post. I shouldn't have assumed they are all lazy bums who don't want to be independent. I think Steve's post got me headed more in that direction. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 26, 2016 -> 10:51 PM) Well Greg...I think it is my responsibility to save up and get them through college. And didn't your dad think it was important to as well (certainly seems like it). So yes, when I had kids, I thought it was part of my responsibility to do everything I could to best prepare them for life and in my opinion exiting school with a giant pile of debt is something I'd like to be able to prevent my kids from having (and I'd like them to pass it on to future generations of "Chisoxfn's"). I can recognize the difficulties in life and try to best position them so that they can have a head start. I certainly don't want to raise my kids, not share my perspectives with them, and just go spend all the money on myself and say f*** it, you deal with this s***? And I'd think it would be pretty rotten, if you took a similar treatment with your own kids (given that your dad did all that for you). Wouldn't you like to pass it forward. Isn't part of the goal of any parent to try and put the next generation in a better spot than where you are (who wants worse for their kids). Now their are absolutely different ways of going about it. Please note, nowhere did I say shower them with fancy cars, buy them fancy apartments, etc., but the facts are the facts, and I'd like to give them head starts that I think would put them in a far better position to be financially independent (life isn't easy so if I can do things to increase probabilities of long-term success for my kids, I'll do all I can...send them to good schools, have them partake in activities, etc, actually be there for them and teach them lessons and talk to them and listen to them). I have no idea what I'll get myself into and no idea what my kids will ultimately turn into, but I'll do what I do out of love for them and my wanting them to be in a position to where they succeed in life. Note: Again, this isn't talking about buying them fancy things or ignoring their responsibility. I'm a huge believer in independence and them learning their own lessons and working and going through all those aspects because it makes them stronger. And yes, I actually do think their are extremely valid arguments to be made for why education should extend to a higher level now (I don't know how to pay for it, but given that college is the new norm and given the skillsets we expect out of our economy, I do think there are real reasons to say after high school you go to a trade school or you go to college and at least to some extend their are ways to make it more inclusive / part of our education program or better incentivized). This of course is all presuming I can afford it and doing what I can (I'm not going to travel the world and give my kids the short end of the stick...but if all I can do was put food on the table than well, that is all I can do). Oh and of course I'd be pushing state tuition, etc. Yes sir. Great post.