ChiSox_Sonix

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 06:58 PM) f***ing disgusting. It really is.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:51 PM) Just because we don't have anybody better doesn't mean that JP sucks any less. How the f*** does a major league baseball player amass 22 extra base hits in 734 PAs? He's terrible. I don't care, And stolen bases have long proven to be overrated. All hatred aside, that is just patently not true.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:43 PM) Actually, it certainly can hurt some guys. He's been adapted to working 150+ innings (albiet in college) the last couple years. Dropping back to 60 could mean that it takes several more years to build his arm back up to starter level, or could also mean that he comes out as a starter the next year and something really goes wrong. However...frankly, it's a crapshoot. I worry most about the 150-60-175 innings path, because that's gotta be crazy on the arm, but some guys can take it and some guys can't, and I have no idea how you'd predict in advance. That's actually a really good point. I guess I'm just comfortable doing this with him this year because I can legitimately see us as an actual WS threat right now.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:48 PM) I'm one of Viciedo's biggest fans on this site. I love the raw tools but I also know he has limitations. However, you made a valid point about letting him spend this season in AAA and playing left field on a regular basis. I don't have a problem with that, but I also know we have major league needs and if the right offer is out there I'm okay moving Viciedo. I'd move anyone for the right offer, I'm just afraid of trading him for far less than what we should.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:44 PM) I think I'd say because he belongs at 1b/DH and it will be 3+ years before the Sox have a role for him. I think it's too early to say he "belongs" there though. I absolutely think he needs/deserves more time dedicated to one position for a full year before we can make that judgement. And, even if it is two years, he'll still only be 23 and we'll have 3 years left of control on him. I could absolutely see a scenario where he and Konerko split time in 2013 because PK starts to falter.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:40 PM) Right now I agree with you. I think Flowers value is lower than his potential upside and I have no problem holding onto him. I also don't think a 2 year commitment to AJ should phase things. Injuries happen and its nice knowing we have a young catcher who is cost controlled with power potential down in the minors. He clearly has some offensive flaws to his game but his defense has apparently improved and it sounded as if the Sox had some optimism late in the season and they felt he could make strides with a good off-season. Would I trade him for the right piece, absolutely, but I can still see Flowers eventually emerging as a starter on the White Sox. I can no longer see that from Viciedo which is why I feel it is time to swing him (and potentially other players) for another talented prospect or young pitcher, if possible. Specifically for a team looking for a bat. Why? You're not alone, a lot of people feel that way. But I mean the kid's 21 years old. To me he's done a great job adjusting. His first year I was fine with as he was adjusing to life not in Cuba and last year I thought he made strides as well. He definitely has flaws but he's just shown so much potential. We're not talking about a 5th year minor leaguer we drafted out of college. We're talking about a 21 year old kid who has spend less than two full years living in the United States.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:58 AM) Yes sir, I really want Sale to be the closer this season and jump into the rotation in place of Mark/Edwin next year. I do too. He's young enough where using him in the bullpen for a year shouldn't really hurt him. And if we're "all-in" for this year, having him at the back end of the bullpen gives us the best chance to win.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:37 PM) Well, unless the Sox feel he can play the field, he has nowhere to get regular at bats at for at least 3 full seasons (when Paulie comes off the books). Which is why they should let him try out a corner OF spot in Charlotte this year. Don't half-ass it and move him all around either. I love his bat and think it justifies giving this a shot.

That line made me smile.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 09:37 AM) Sox passed in AA phase. Pretty boring, we lost 3 guys and brought back none and they're cheap too, only 12,500 for a guy in the minor league phase. Maybe KW was serious when he said the team was tapped out as far as spending on players. Didn't really lose anything. Rasner had potential at one time but never really showed it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 04:45 PM) I think, if anything, this proves that Jerry Reinsdorf isn't the cold-hearted business man that most people view him as, and the White Sox aren't in general. They are perhaps naive in resigning Konerko to the deal they did, because it assumes that he will continue being a similar player to that of the Paul Konerko from 2000-2010. And they are perhaps making both a financially and value-based irresponsible move, because Konerko's contract is worth more than anything Derrek Lee is going to get on the open market, they lose out on 2 draft picks, and they lose out on the $4 mill or whatever the difference may be between Lee and Konerko's deals. This is a move made for both the quality of the player, the loyalty that Reinsdorf has for Konerko, and for the public relations of the Chicago White Sox. With regards to his quality, I think it's fairly safe to say that Paul Konerko is still a good hitter. I strongly doubt he's a .900+ OPS guy going forward, but he's a much better than average hitter, and I don't see that suddenly falling off the face of the planet. Beyond that, in the final year of his deal, he is being paid such a reasonable amount that it may make sense to begin to develop a 1B that year while he is still playing, which would significantly cut into his playing time - it really wouldn't surprise me to see Konerko end up with fewer than 400 PAs in 2013. There is a level of loyalty that Reinsdorf shows to Konerko, and a lot of that has to do with Konerko being a long-time member of this organization, it has to do with him living near Reinsdorf in Arizona, and it has to do with him being a huge part in delivering the first World Series title in Chicago since World War I. There has always been a great deal of loyalty from Reinsdorf towards veteran players who have been very important figures in White Sox history, and those that show their loyalty towards the Sox will be shown that loyalty right back. It sends a message to those who play for the White Sox right now and the rest of the players in the league that, if you want to be a member of the Chicago White Sox, you will be, and you will be paid fairly. And, if you perform well during your tenure with the Chicago White Sox and act as a diplomat for the team, you will be rewarded with another contract, even if you may be a little older, and it may be above what you are actually worth. Beyond that, and I think one of the most important aspects of this move, is the move with regard to the average fan of the Chicago White Sox. I don't think you will find any disagreement amongst the members of the front office that the move the Sox should have made, to maximize their value, would have been to bring in Derrek Lee, use the left over funds to sign a reliever, let Konerko walk and collect the two draft picks. What happens though when Paul Konerko goes to Arizona and hits 40 homers? And Derrek Lee hits .220 halfway through May and then goes down with a wrist injury? And the reliever does his best Scott Linebrink impression? And the two draft picks bust? All of that is not likely to happen, but it's also not outside the realm of possibility. If that occurs, what happens to the average fan? Do you not believe that there will be some vehement dissidence towards the Chicago White Sox organization as a whole? I am not trying to suggest that Paul Konerko is somehow the cause of the Nostradamian end of the world prophecies, merely that his presence means a lot to White Sox fans. I do not believe that if Konerko struggles, there would be as much of an outrage by the fan base. That needs to be taken into consideration as well. --- In the end, I'm not going to pretend that I wanted Konerko back. As an economics student, I understand that you should try and maximize your intrinsic value, and I believed that signing Derrek Lee, using the excess money and signing a reliever, and gaining two draft picks was worth more than Paul Konerko. Some more accomplished businessmen than I disagreed. I'm not hurt or upset by the decision, and in fact can't disagree with it. It's still fairly likely that Paul Konerko will hit 75 homers over the next 3 years, and it's certainly possible that he will hit 100. He will get his 2000th hit, he will score his 1000th run, he will play in his 2000th game and it's entirely possible that he will get his 10th career stolen base and 10th career triple. The basic premise is that Paul Konerko has been a great player and almost certainly should continue to be a good player, and the White Sox have him for 3 more years. (BTW, I don't believe it is a coincidence that the DBacks offered a deal that was 3/$30, and the value of Konerko's deal, excluding the deferred money, is 3/$30.5) Post of the thread.

QUOTE (quickman @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:22 PM) If we are "All in" lets look at the holes we have on this team. 5th starter and at least one bullpen arm. Viciedo is not that good. If he can be used to get either of these for our "all in" 2011. Trade him now. I love statements like this. He's 21 years old for crying out loud! The way some people talk about this kid and have for the past two years just drives me nuts...

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 05:06 PM) cst_sox cst_sox Getting the feeling that it's going to be a long winter for Sox fans - think "The Kids Can Play II.'' Good call Cowley

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 12:56 PM) There was some talk albeit I don't know how truthful about him having problems with perception, flyballs etc. I've heard that, but with limited experience and being so young couldn't that always change? I really think it's worth our time to give it a try with him.

He's only 21. I'd love to hang on to him this year and plant him in a corner OF spot in Charlotte and see if he can do it. His bat has special power potential and I don't think we'd net enough in trade for him at the moment to make it worth it to trade him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 11:03 AM) The Cubs are committed to Carlos Pena for nothing in 2012 or 2013, or 2014-2019, for that matter. It's 1M per year deferred. Seriously, that is nothing and would never get in the way or any sort of sign or trade.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 09:59 PM) No I think he was arguing that for what it'll cost the Sox, he's a better fit. I can see the argument for Lee but not for LaRoche

QUOTE (scotty22hotty @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 09:43 PM) I'm worried that most of us just want Konerko to retire a Sox rather than sign the better value 1B. (Lee or LaRoche) Konerko was ranked last in defense/range (UZR/150 of -14.1) among full-time MLB 1B... for comparison Dunn had a -3.3. I know UZR doest factor in runs/errors saved from picked balls etc, but a -14.1 says a lot. With numbers of 13M per for 3 years being thrown around for Konerko... I just think Lee or LaRoche would be the better overall investment. UZR isn't the best stat for 1B. And you're really arguing LaRoche is better than Konerko???

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 04:55 PM) Garcia is the 5th until Peavy's healthy. As much as I want Sale to start, I think that ship has sailed for next year. I want Sale to be a starter, but if we're going for it next year he helps us most in the pen. He's young enough where one year of him in the pen shouldn't really hurt him much.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 04:07 PM) #mlb #whitesox #redsox The Chicago White Sox were runner-up in the Adrian Gonzalez derby, offering IF Gordon Beckham and prospects. - Nightangale Doubtful

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 02:57 PM) Just for fun, my ideal lineup would be: Pierre Beckham Dunn Konerko Rios Quentin Ramirez AJP Morel Mine as well. I like Rios breaking up Dunn/PK/Q with his speed. Also like Alexei at 7 to drive people in as opposed to 2nd where I feel Beckham is more suited provided he doesn't have a repeat of first half 2010

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Dec 3, 2010 -> 04:46 AM) Looks like Reinsdorf is going all in this year and I love it. Since we have the pitching staff we do, JR may be willing to "break the bank" for one or two seasons and go for it. Of course if we do and fail, we could be heading into a major youth movement aftwerwards. We all know baseball is JR's passion. Maybe the allure of another WS title is enough for him to open the checkbook for a couple seasons.

Dunn at 4/56 and Konerko possibly close? Wow. I won't hold my breath but boy that would be a nice lineup.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 04:30 PM) I actually think that if we could Paulie and Dunn back, then we could punt a position like catcher to give Flowers some time to find his bearings at the Major League level. Can you imagine if Flowers comes into spring with his bat back? Pierre Rios Q Dunn Paulie Beckham Ramirez Morel Flowers Flowers Especially if he's allowed to bat twice!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) The internet must be working in his moms basement again.