LDF

QUOTE (RegionSox @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 09:33 PM) I can't see how a better offense would change how well he pitches, unless you are looking at something like Wins. That's a pretty bad way to judge the pitcher though. i have a feeling when people judge pitchers, they also look at the win / lost bracket as well. they can't help it. how do you really judge a pitcher, esp if their stuff is really good ......... but how he performs in a game and how the opposing hitters react this his pitches.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 07:54 PM) None. He's 19 with only one full year of pro ball under his belt, barely got to A+, and is still growing into his body. He's not the type you rush, and the Sox won't. This isn't Rodon or Sale. excellent call.... i really agree on needing to grow into his body... let him get way stronger and learn more about pitching.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 07:15 PM) Quintana has an extremely unlucky BABIP against and is surrendering weaker contract than ever. His hits allowed stat is an anomaly. for me, i always thought of the person who is stating that Q is a #1 or ace, well as being a hard core fan. i have no problem saying that Q is a weak #2 solid #3. now if he a better offense or team.... that may move him to a solid #2.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 04:34 PM) Sox fans don't support the team at all, rebuild or not. you really need to define this a little more. my defense will be.... look at forbes article on the sox and the profit and expense. the bottom line there says that the org has been making money regularly.....

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 07:30 PM) Again the original statement was Sox fans don't support the franchise. The facts say that is incorrect. All of a sudden conditions and reasons are being listed for doing so, basically making exceptions. That doesn't hold water. If fans didn't support the franchise they would come out under ANY conditions and that's simply not true. I'll go so far as to say Sox fans have been pretty good at supporting this franchise given the generally bad baseball they've seen for decades. I mean five postseason spots in 35 years? The Sox being the only one of the original 16 pre expansion MLB franchises to have never made the postseason in consecutive years?? Given those facts the Sox should be grateful they are even getting the numbers they have been. Just my opinion. Mark a good analysis . i will go further and add this. the sox haven't won a world series until 2005. before that, the sox were winning. now the word is perception.... as long as the fans perceive that the owners are trying to put a winning team on the field, i will say that the fans will come out. now another word to consider is attendance. the attendance perception of not having a game being sold out.... for every game in the season, that is not going to happen. so the whole thing is really how people want to look at and what they are expecting. but the park will be less filled if the owners and FO didn't put out a team of players who can compete.

QUOTE (RegionSox @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) I thought I read somewhere Nick Hostetler ran all the rounds of the draft this year except the first. while i do not who it is, it has been a long time that someone know what to do.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 05:28 PM) Well this rebuild while contending philosophy has led to a losing season (counting this year) in six of the past nine seasons, no consecutive winning seasons since 2003-2006, no playoffs (in an era of parity) since 2008, the lowest watched MLB franchise according to Fan Graphs and attendance that's generally ranked towards the bottom of MLB and that lost fans from the previous season for eight straight seasons. I submit that philosophy isn't working based on the historical facts. "It's Time" (sorry LOL) for a change in that philosophy and if that means a total complete rebuild...so be it. How much worse could it get if they did that given the facts I just presented? The REAL issue though is the same people who put this franchise in the position it's in and going to be charged with fixing it. Personally I don't think they can. Mark a very good point, fyi for this response. i never took into account the time from 2006 thru winter of 2014, well b/c i was sick. so going back on this philosophy of what you stated. it is a complete rebuild. the first pieces were sale, Q, anderson, hawkins and Jose A. now with a plate of crap slapped on the face of the FO, they have to have the spin doctors come up with something believable. the problem with that, they forget the sox fans are more skeptical in what they are spewing out. now my problem is i don't trust the people who put sox in this position, so i am going to continue to suffer and i will continue to cheer on my beleaguered team. damn.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 04:34 PM) Sox fans don't support the team at all, rebuild or not. that is a great point i would lover to debate...... but not at this time. i will be back to this one. again excellent counter.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/2015/...e-championship/ Recap on the Arizona League Sox championship and Spencer Adam's excellent start! whomever is calling the shots and drafting...... many many pats on the back for making the minor league teams exciting.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 03:49 PM) I don't know, but the short answer is not many. And you could look deeper and say how many make the majors and stay there? There are plenty of guys who get called up in September or for a brief stint to cover for an injury but never spend an entire season at the MLB level. excellent post. and some of those never have a long career in the majors.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 02:01 PM) The difference is Saladino has never been a very good hitter at any level, while Sanchez has hit for high averages in the minors. I do think Saladino will improve slightly with the bat, but not as much as you all seem to expect. a real good point, another point i am looking at is this, minor league stats vs major league stats. they are expected to be different. however another way to look at it, the value of said stats is subjective in nature and can not be taken as the bottom line, unless it comes with a chart that shows a guide line of how to look at it.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 12:23 PM) This is such a typical statement from you. A 2nd round pick drafted out of high school, a 7th round pick and a 17 year old Venezuelan kid signed for minimal money turned into 3 major league players. That's a win. i am not taking sides but let me add this. how many minor league players actually make the majors..... i really wonder if there is such a stat for that. furthermore, how many players from a draft makes the big team???

QUOTE (Special K @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) Before the Pirates made the wildcard in 2013, they hadn't seen the playoffs in 20 years. So I'd say a 20 year rebuild is worse than whatever the Sox are going through right now. Clearly, they're in a better position to compete now and I don't think anyone is questioning that. I don't think the Sox are that far away from competing. They just need to find some players that can swing the bat. Probably won't be in contention next year, but if they can get some REAL offense from trading away Q, and assuming EJ can fill up a rotation spot, in 2017 with hopefully guys like Anderson and Fulmer (maybe) are up and ready to contribute. Also, with Danks off the books and LaRoche, they will have roughly $25 million to spend as well. Doesn't seem too bad. Theo got 5 years, let's give Hahn at least 3 years. thanks on many counts and you are 100% correct. the sox fans, except before this yr, did not and will not support a full rebuild. they will show their displeasure by not showing up or spending good money on crap. that has always forced the owners hand to do it correct or even go further than ok in acquiring players. this is the a good enuf span that i can remember in a long time when i seen a time of the org in this state of hopelessness. easy was for me to explain it, a ship without a captain who has a clue of what to do.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) I'm assuming he meant Padres. But if he meant Pirates... no, just no. thanks but i did mean the pirates. they did some really screwy stuff before..... it their rebuild.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 12:51 PM) WTF? The Pirates aren't rebuilding, they have the 3rd best record in baseball and have made the wild card game the last 2 years. No one on Earth would say that's a worse position than a 7 year playoff drought. geez, can you carry on a conversation without any insults, i know you are intelligent ???? as i said, and i never specified that they were rebuilding. it was said on a rebuild, they pirates have screwed up before they started to get their heads screwed on right. but is was a thought in quick reflections.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) If this "rebuild" is on track, I would love to see one that's not. The only team that seems like it has put itself in a worse situation than the White Sox would probably be the Padres. Other than that, we still don't have anyone you can count on for a grand total of six positions in the batting order going into next season. right off the top of my head and without thinking about it, the pirates comes to mind rarely quickly.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 02:06 AM) Excellent start for Adams 7 ip 1 run another excellent performance from out young prospects.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 05:01 AM) Very cool to see White Sox become the Arizona League champs. This draft class is showing well right away. I usually don't put a ton of stock into winning in the minor leagues, but it really is a cool thing when it happens. I'd rather they win than not and there's something about doing it at the lowest level as rookie that makes it extra special. This is largely draft picks and international signings. it is most excellent ....

geez .... every time i see this title, i am expecting to see some one post of Hahn sitting up and paper training him. i am sorry, but that is the frame of mind i am now. good boy Hahn....

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 06:01 AM) I can never be giddy about this when they are bad at scouting, development and only go for a pitcher. well the next draft may be all the same. there is the BPA, and depending on where the sox pick, it might be another pitcher. 3 maybe 4 positional players in the top 15 so far, if the draft was held today. however all that may change come next yr. some fall some will come out of no where to really impress and some will really solidify their standing.

there are many ways of being a fan, even if it means loosing in order to ensure a better pick in the draft. there is nothing wrong on that or for that way of thinking. i prefer for the sox to win, and if they loose, oh well. they gave it a try. but i will not look down on anyone to cheer for them loosing for a lousy season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 02:02 AM) But...White Flag, the Sox attendance will nosedive, etc., etc. Would have been nice if they would have started rebuilding in 2007 instead of eight years later. If that had been done correctly, we'd be sitting in a sweet position right about now. According to this thread, we're now pushing back to 2018-19-20. Hope they get it right at some point. And/or decide to hold someone accountable for not getting it right finally. if they really made some hard, harsh choices in spring training and i am not talking about trading Sale nor Jose, i feel as they can compete next yr.

QUOTE (beautox @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 01:51 AM) The Red sox have the best system in baseball right now followed by the dodgers then the rockies, the cubs have graduated a ton of talent. I think both the dodgers and the red sox make a ton of sense. i don't think the sox will trade him. but for this discussion ..... if the sox trade him, get him out of the AL.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 12:10 AM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 13m13 minutes ago Minneapolis, MN Hahn: "The approach we’ve had for the last several weeks or months in the front office has been to be extremely open minded ... Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 13m13 minutes ago Minneapolis, MN Hahn: "There’s no sacred cows. Everything is on the table and we are looking at everything." Build around Chris Sale and Jose Abreu. maybe it is me and me being very skeptical, but this sounds as a snow job to make it look as everything is mellow. thinking about it, it sure feels that there was a real problem in the FO during this time. reason, why make excuses, for some sort of justification. i don't buy it, but it is what it is.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) Given how players are rushed to the big leagues today (the days when guys like Gary Peters and Joe Horlen spent five years in the minors learning their craft are long gone) maybe it would be to the Sox benefit to actually work with players every day no? ESPECIALLY if other teams aren't doing it. Makes you wonder if the coaches feel they shouldn't have to do it, what exactly do they do and what are they getting paid for. And don't overlook the impact a coaching staff can have, I refer back to this quote from Tony LaRussa when I interviewed him. He was talking about when he first came on-board and the Sox started to develop in the early 1980's: "For a long time coaches were just friends of the manager or guys getting their time in to get a pension. But jerry Reinsdorf recognized that because kids were being pushed to the major leagues earlier, the role of coaches as teachers became crucial. He embraced the idea of putting together the best coaching staff you possibly could, that the staff of a manager should be a force for developing players..." Note the last part of Tony's comment. This team has been putrid fundamentally and baseball stupid overall for the past five years or so. Some of that falls on the players, some on the manager and the coaches. This team was also totally unprepared for this year coming out of spring training. They were on a record pace in terms of poor defense and base running according to Fan Graphs. Again some of that falls on the players but in this particular case the majority of the blame goes to the manager and his coaches in my opinion. Mark excellent post. ref the bold, if you didn't tell us the background, i would have sworn that was made on this team, this yr.