LDF

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 05:03 AM) The 2012 team featured: A career year for Pierzynski. 27 home runs, .827 OPS The final year of vintage Konerko. .857 OPS The final year of excellent Rios, .850 OPS DeAza's best full season, 2.5 WAR an in-season trade for YOUK!, .771 OPS in 80 games w/ White Sox Tank Viciedo's best season, 1.0 WAR Most improved Adam Dunn, 41 HR .800 OPS NONE of those players ever reached those heights again. Most not even close, 4 are not playing major league baseball now. You also got standard issue, non-crater seasons from Alexei and Gordon, something Alexei might not be capable of anymore. As Hahn has stated many times, they knew they'd have to shift away from that old core and rebuild at some point soon. And the team showed them when the next year. i really can't believe i will post something positive on KW, but it is the truth. i do not hate him that i will over look the truth to prove a point. wasn't there a article on KW, and a discussion, his version with the sox owners, which lead up to this season. didn't he go to the owners and asked about breaking up the team and start on a rebuild. i believe the owners was against it and thought the team, will a few more additions can make another run at the WS?? if stated correctly, this was the best results that team achieved, sad but it is true. the end results were the contracts that would burden the team for several more yrs. so in essence, this was a by product of a familiarity / friendship that the owner had with KW. KW as gm should have stood his grounds and really make the point. KW didn't help anyone by being a friend instead of an employee with the responsibilities that came with the GM position. i still think this is still happening. but then again, what in hell do i know???

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 08:08 AM) I'm a longtime Ozzie supporter. I never stopped supporting him. Greg has every right to misinformed and have this no fault affinity about ozzie, just like everyone is about anything else. ozzie should not have been looking for a job while in the employment of the sox. ozzie should not have let his son run rampant as he did against the sox ozzie should not have taken and kind of recourse for his son not getting drafted. this was the beginning of the domino effect that lead to open hostility within the ranks of the management team, that made the final out come even worse than it should have.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 03:00 AM) I'm totally unconvinced. Our last loss to Detroit describes this team perfectly. Up 4-0 in the eighth, Detroit wakes up and simply scores 5 before making six measly outs and we lose ... again. This team in its current form blows. Even if hitting got a little better, then some other aspect would fall apart. Time to blow it up. Need whole new coaching staff next season and tons of new players. i really don't know about the games the sox could have won, what, the last 6 games. all i know i disagree with your assessment that the last game was b/c det hitter woke up and won it. while in that plain and simple sense of an allusion that on that game det was better. i do beg to differ, it is hard for the sox to win normally. it is equally hard to win, when the coaches are working against the team, a rp should have came in earlier.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) We will get a much better idea of how true all of the rumors are now. If he signs the full deal, the rumors are total BS. If he signs the shorter deal, then we still have to wonder if he wants out, or just a shot at a new max deal in a couple of years. a very good point and observation.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 09:10 PM) These so called baseball expert analysts can say what they want. Baseball players are professional athletes and are ADULTS! If they don't perform you don't treat them like children you move them. Find someone else to play if you truly feel these guys can't perform. I just got done listening to similar stuff on MLB network. They have no idea what happened to the Sox and a couple said they had picked the Sox to win after their off season moves. The Sox effort yo win now appears to have failed big time and we have no back up plan as far as developing our own. They think the Sx picked poorly in the draft for a decade but the last couple years have shown good moves, but there are no major league ready position players. The Indians on the other hand are seen as being able to recover faster. Seems the Sox are doomed for last place for several years. a great post!!! re.... i don't see that and i will tell you why. management and whomever is there and the manager were made to look like a fool, and they deserved to. if, i am am going to name this one owner, if JR gets really pissed, as he should, things will happen in the off season. now if nothing happens like i said, then he lost all grips of pride. it is that bad, at least for me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 06:41 PM) Problem is - signing big-money free agents actually hurts the team's ability to fix the farm. It sets us up to trade pieces from the farm for guys near FA because "we signed all these guys now we need to fill these last holes", and it costs draft picks and money. Until we're ready to "expand AAA and look for lightning in a bottle" for a few years while letting the draft do its job...we're going to repeat this cycle...in that we're going to keep utterly failing. the thing is, i would normally agree with you on this point, but lets look at the longest fa signing. 3 yrs. normal fa signing would have been 4-5 yrs. now that would hamper the club in doing something to rebuild. but 1 contract for 3 yrs and that can be easily fixed.

didn't Jose A did something very similar to extra batting practice. but it was down played and only a little snippet to it, last yr. he was still hitting very good, dang it. i can't remember. anyone else remember something like that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 09:42 PM) With the changes in drafting techniques since the last CBA it literally worthless to compare one pick to another in terms of signing bonuses because of the way that teams go underslot with certain picks in an effort to pick up talent later in the draft. For example our 15th round pick cost more than our 8th - 14th round picks. Why? Because money we saved in the 8/9/10 rounds we used to go over slot for a HS kid in the 15th. very nice, esp when you present a visual example. i really never thought of that. so now there is another loop hole.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 09:46 PM) On a sidenote, it wasn't that long ago that Butler was in LA for an ESPN appearance (after we had gotten knocked out of the playoffs) and they asked Jimmy about going elsewhere and he said he intended to stay in Chicago and how the Bulls were the one organization who drafted him and saw talent in him and was their from the beginning, etc. Not sure if that was before or after Thibs was fired though. on a timeline.... how was that in with the time he spent with the Entourage movie crew and didn't he went to Europe with then on their press junket??

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:06 PM) So help me out here, since 2006 here are the players I came up with that were drafted by the White Sox and played any appreciable amount of time with the big league team. I may be missing some...and of course it may not be fair to not include minor league players who were traded for, but the player development picture remains pretty bleak in my opinion. I left Frank off intentionally. POSITION PLAYERS Crede Iguchi* Anderson Fields Owens Getz Sweeney Stewart Andy Gonzalez Beckham Viciedo* Ramirez* Morel Escobar Jordan Danks Gimenez Phegley Semien Wilkins Abreu* There are a lot more pitchers drafted that the Sox have had success with, like Buehrle, Hudson, McCarthy, Richards and Sale. And like I said, when minor league trades are factored in, the likes of Garland, Jenks, Danks and Cotts. But when it comes to position players, I just don't see it, even with minor league trades. The biggest names might be Flowers and Gillaspie. To me that seems like a real dearth of quality talent drafted and developed into successful, consistent contributors. Crede's the only one who was an All-Star who didn't play pro ball before coming to the Sox (like the cubans). Looking at some more notable names drafted by other teams in our division over that time... CLE VMart Peralta Kipnis Chisenhall DET Granderson Avila Raburn Dirks Kelly Castellanos MIN Mauer Morneau Hunter Cuddyer Kubel (I'm going to stop there because it's ridiculous) KC why bother - it's pretty obvious The other teams in the division have also done a helluva lot more with minor league trades if you factor in those. It's not even close. So blast away - am I being unfair? Leaving off obvious names that destroy this amateur analysis? with all due respect, i made the strike thru, based on what the timeline you are using, 2006. and the cubans were not drafted but added thru fa's, again not within what you are saying. but as you said, with the strike out players, this paint even more of a dismal picture of the state of the org....... again, i will add, who is at fault..... not KW nor Hahn.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) http://www.bucsdugout.com/2015/5/1/8530719...es-mets-promote the draft pick - to be used as a player to be named later. that really took that loop hole out.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 09:04 PM) You can put take any connotation you want out of my text. I think saying "his issue" insinuates it didn't go smoothly. What he did proved to be shortsighted when looking at it with hindsight. i see and understand what you are saying. we the fans on this board has the leeway of seeing things in hindsight. but even some of the posters where complaining about it. if they could see the mistake in it before hindsight, then how come management didn't see it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:09 PM) Bingo. I don't think his problem is finding talent, it is being willing to put up the cash for that talent at the expense of the current ballclub. Historically he'd add the extra player do the team at the expense of drafting the most expensive/talented player available. With the new CBA that really isn't an issue like it used to be, and I think you see the difference in our drafts. in hindsight, i agree with what you posted. and i can see that even this past draft with some questionable picks when there were players on the board that signed a lot less than the slot in that pick.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) Doesn't lay blame on Ventura. If I'm Ventura, I’m making them go through infield and outfield pregame drills like Little League teams. I don’t care if players feel embarrassed. They ought to be embarrassed by their Little League-like play fielding and throwing. They ought to have enough pride to fix it. Note to Samardzija - want to get paid like an ace, act like one. I don't know if this is done or do players try to improve on their own instead of going through the motions. I remember in 2005, when Rowand wasn't hitting he would go to the batting cages in the morning. If they fired Ventura they might get maybe a week of improvement that may be about it. I read a comment someone mentioned a culture of losing. That supports my theory they always get too many guys from losing organizations. oh what a beautiful way to kick them in the arse with out showing them up during a game. i truly like the bold

this is going to be interesting the way this is going to play out. this might even set a preceden in any incidents like this in the future. esp if it is to get out of a burdenson contract.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:05 PM) Was Richards involved in that situation where the LA Kings player(Stoll?) was busted with ecstacy and coke? what ever it was, it has to do with the player association and their contract with the nhl and the players conduct section of the contract. nothing but that will lead to this kind of unquestioned reaction but the owners.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:58 PM) I keep coming back to this - it's not about whether Robin should be fired for doing something wrong. It's that Robin is doing absolutely NOTHING of value in his current position. I can't come up with a reason why we wouldn't replace him. it is that he is out of his element. all ex players can not be coaches / managers. and try as he may, RV did try to do the job.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:55 PM) Partially because of what I've heard and partially what I would think, I agree with all of this. Hahn knows his limits as a scout even though he has worked very hard at it early in his career with the Sox. For example, Hahn never saw Abreu hit live prior to signing him. It was Kenny's scouting report that made Reinsdorf say "whatever it takes." In other orgs, like Houston for instance, Lunhow handles all of the day to day stuff and has a prominent role in scouting Astro targets, KW covers the scouting aspect of the top tier of the FO. Hahn does most of the rest but it seems like he defers the final say in scouting to KW. They compliment each other well in that respect. One of the more interest nuggets I was told: "Kenny misses the day to day stuff." then if true, which i believe you, then that is KW problem. he is too closely attached to the decisions making of the prospects. they will need to have a 3rd person to see the whole picture and can make the necessary decision making, and that can not be the owners.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 07:09 PM) I think that still holds. Look at this offseason. According to SI, JR was disappointed upon hearing the team was a long ways away. So he said do what you can to make it a contender this year. All the signings and trades indicate that is exactly what they were doing. They signed some expensive guys but still, $14 million a year on FA is pretty middle of the road these days, so they signed several instead of trading away the few prospects they have left. This team is not as bad as they have played. in all the random fluff concerning what JR and the owners said or didn't didn't. for me, it is obvious that there was a extent that they, the org will spend and they stop spending. esp when it was going to get in the profit area. instead they went to cheap route. so making this team a contender was based on the least expensive way and a prayer, and of course making some bad assumptions on what talent they had accumulated.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 05:56 PM) Hahn and his lieutenants had their work cut out for them. To turn a team that had won 63 and 73 games, respectively, the previous two seasons and had posted the majors' third worst run differential in 2014 into a contender overnight would be no small undertaking. They’d have to be creative, and they’d have to be aggressive — and the Samardzija trade would be a start. It was Reinsdorf's idea to OKAY THE SPENDING. It wasn't his idea to choose Samardzija, Robertson and (eventually) Cabrera specifically. From that article, it was clear that Samardzija and Robertson were the two initial targets of the off-season. But someone put them on that list in the first place, and it wasn't JR writing in ink on that infamous BIG BOARD. Someone "sold" the idea of going after Samardzija and Robertson to him, just like Buddy Bell was the one who pushed for the Mark Teahen acquisition, or Marco Paddy with some of his specific Latin American targets. if it wasn't JR, then who was it???

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 05:25 PM) Rongey had him on White Sox Weekly this Saturday and my god does he sound clueless. He literally offered no insights into any of our minor leaguers, but rather spit out high-level nonsense like "a lot of these guys can't do two things at once". He seems like one of those guys that pretends to have all the answers but simply spews a bunch of BS. Without question, Buddy Bell should be the first one to go if we shake up this organization. he wasn't clueless, or had no ideas to the systems. he was given marching orders not to answer the truth. he plain and simply lied by not answering the question but to misdirect them. that was a basic politician way of answering the questions. does anyone really think he will go on there and say that the org screwed up???

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 04:23 PM) Then you dont trade him? I dont understand why everyone feels like the Sox should be receiving nothing for him. They will get a good prospect or two or have a comp pick. exactly, a comp is just as good instead of receiving castoff prospects the other team don't want.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 03:19 PM) Just by sheer numbers, they won't be able to protect them all. That is exactly how we picked jose Quintana off of the Yankees. any that is a possibility, then again, you are assuming it might happen. i am talking about the sure things to see, not an assumption.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) Point is I'd rather see them in the lineup, Davidson has been on a tear in CHA actually and is homerun or strike out just like LaRoche for 12 million cheaper, Leury can be a solid utility on a s*** team though, CWS qualifies as one Davidson will be batting in the 175-200 range.... this would be a laughter or the laughing stock in the whole baseball. as if the sox isn't already.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 03:40 PM) This team is 12 below .500 I could care less about inconsistent defense, he'd fit right in and if he doesn't improve, the sox will need to address that, as they were forced to address it this yr. it was too bad to let it continue. so the sox org needed to bring up Sanchez and sacrifice the offense for a better defense.