LDF

why does it matter, there is one thread, it is up to posters to come to that thread or not. if it bothers posters that much, do not come it. sheesh plain and simple.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) He might not do better than Thibs in the short term, but in the long run, I could see him being a better coach for this team than Thibs. For as good as a coach Thibs was, he had his flaws, and I think we would always be good with Thibs, we just won't get over the hump with him. You may not get a better coach with Hoiberg immediately, but at least you get one that should get along with the FO and won't cause any off court distractions. P.S. definite no to Van Gundy or Larry Brown. They aren't upgrades to Thibs both in the short term and long term. the problems with the FO just magnified everything that went wrong with the bulls. the key to that is injuries to key players.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) How many rings has Thibbs brought to Chicago? He made the ECF once. Cry injuries but some of those may have been his fault with running guys into the ground. even thou poster Dick Allen address this, i would like to add, the one key injury that derailed the bulls were the injuries to Rose. btw, no one is going to say that was Thibs fault.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 10:37 AM) It is funny how the Bulls smear campaign organized months ago vs Thibs has been successful. Even thiugh he coached without his best player more than half the games during his tenure, he has a.top 5 all time winning percentage. His offense is old, horrible etc. yet somehow it was top 10 in efficiency with guys like Aaron Brooks and Kirk Hinrich getting decent minutes. He ran players into the ground, yet the only 2 with real heavy minutes were Pau, having his best season in years, and Jimmy Buckets, who somehow overcame being run into the ground last year and this to be voted the leagues most improved player. Maybe Thibs had to go, but there is no basketball reason that needed to happen. The hatchet job started stealthfully months ago, and kept on continuing. Just the other day i heard a media member slammimg Thibs for playing Noah 40 minutes a night on one leg. He played 40 minutes in 2 games this year. One was OT, one was double OT. The total lack of class the Bulls organization showed will bite them in the ass one day. I hope the Mayor succeeds, but I doubt he will squeeze more wins out of the team if the players reamin the same and Rose plays less than half the time. most excellent post. i agree.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 05:12 AM) Yes, I think everyone out there knows how terrible of a "X's and O's" Coach Scott Brooks is. That's why Orlando fans are actually relieved we ended up with Skiles instead of Brooks, simply for that reason (if you can believe that). I know Bogut has been taking some shots at Jackson this season about how he did as a coach, I think GS were smart to move on when they did. I'm curious to see how the Bulls will look offensively now under Hoiberg. As I've said previously, the NBA is now all about spacing, ball movement and 3PT Shooting on the offensive end, and I think under Hoiberg, all of those things should at least improve from what they were under Thibs. Mirotic is probably the one you look at and think if he gets 30mins of playing time a game, he could make a serious leap with his numbers next season as that stretch 4 that has become so sought after these days. he is going to need a great game planner, someone who can draw up a good game plan. i am saying this, b/c someone said Fred would see the bulls tape and he would draw up his offense from the bulls tape.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 03:32 AM) I hate Swirsky asking so many questions, but I love listening to Stoney's answers. A lot to be learned listening to his insights. and by default, we the fans are getting a valuable lesson here. so i can see how Swirsky helps. btw, i didn't see the feed. i think this is logical.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 04:54 AM) I was wrong about you, you can, in fact, be a starter in the MLB again. Gordon looks great this season and I'm really hoping he gets the lions share of starts from now on. i am not going to jump on the bandwagon, no matter how much i want to. i will say, good job and keep it up.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 04:27 AM) They won't. How many guys take a year+ off and are a shadow of themselves? you do have a point. my bad. i was dreaming.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 05:29 AM) I'm not tearing down the ML team, Im trading where I have a surplus of talent, which for the Sox is their starting rotation. Like I said I wouldn't trade Sale and Rodon (and Abreu), that's leaves Danks, Shark and Q. Each of those three guys could give you something back and help make your team by bring in talent to the system and filing some of those holes. no wants Danks...... plain and simple. trading Shark and Q right now, you might as well tear apart the team, the sox do not have replacement players for 2 sp's.

i am hoping that this is a start for good things to follow.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 04:19 AM) Dana Eveland opted out of his minor league deal with the Red Sox. He was having a very nice year in Triple-A. I wouldn't mind the Sox trying to go after him. i wanted the sox to sign him last yr.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 03:01 AM) Why isn't saladino a more highly rated prospect? He is shaking off some rust now, as i expected, but he has pretty good tools. Had a solid year at AAA last year. Good speed, decent power for a SS. Seems like he could be an above average utility player or a decent shortstop. offensively i just don't see him being a starter. except for 1 yr, his avg is practically low. if he is going to make it, it will be based on his defense.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 12:00 AM) There were other things they wanted to do that couldn't get done. and who was at fault??

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 12:14 AM) So Rick Hahn blew a $30 million payroll increase and did so while knowingly leaving gaps that could easily screw over his team's chances of being competitive? Wow, Rick Hahn is even worse at this than I could have imagined. who to say it was Hahn who did this, b/c he is suppose to be the gm in charge?? williams has veto power, the owners group, wants to make money. we do know, RV had no voice in this. oh i forgot, the ace in the hole in the pitching rotation, B Penny and at what cost??

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 12:40 AM) Schueler was still in the payroll a year or two after he quit.and while KW worked under him when he was the GM, Schueler reccommended Dan Evans to JR for the job. The fascinating thing about this whole thing was everyone was stroking Rick's cock for the moves this winter. Now that the team has struggled, those were stupid moves that KW made. i was a major backer of Hahn and his moves. but the rebuild just stopped. i know b/c i ranted on this. whether i was right in the ranks is not the point, the point is, the rebuild was not finished. they ASSUMED that what they did, was enuf. having 1 player or 2 underperforming is not the reason this whole team is floundering. the mystery is what is causing this slump?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 11:27 PM) I think the idea that Rick Hahn has some completely different plan that is being stifled by everyone here is just silly. First of all, Rick Hahn cut his teeth with the White Sox. If anyone has an idea of how the front office of the White Sox is run, it is Rick. The guy has worked for this team for over a decade. He knows very clearly the organizational structure here, and he knows it infinitely better then any of us on Soxtalk. Second of all, Hahn had teams knocking on his door, trying to get him to interview with them. The Trib article about Rick's promotion stated that at least five different teams came after him at various points. Taking the assumption that Rick Hahn understood what he was getting into with the White Sox, and the fact that despite having many other teams after him, he turned them all down and waited for a promotion here, you can only make the reasoned point that even with the understanding of how the White Sox are run, he wanted to be here. Not only did he want to be here, he wanted to be here more than just about anywhere else. If he didn't, he would have either taken these other interviews, or waited out his contract to find a better organization. None of that actually happened. The only reasonable conclusion is that knowing his market for another job, and knowing how the Sox are run, he wanted to be here. Finally, knowing that both Kenny and Jerry had what ever level of input that was related to Rick in the promotional process, Rick Hahn was also fine with that. He also was accepting of whatever long term strategic plan that was related to him over the course of his time with the organization. When he accepted the promotion, he knew damned well his level of power, the approval process within the organization, and the long term plan for the franchise. Again, if he didn't like any of it, he wouldn't have taken the position. There are only two reasonable conclusions that can be had here. #1, Rick Hahn is totally on board with whatever plan was discussed along they way. #2 Rick Hahn is perfectly willing to accept whatever directives that Jerry and Kenny have put together for this team. Now what are the levels of input and freedom that Rick has? Who knows. Whatever it is, it is something that was established years ago, and involves upper management pretty intimately. To me is also obvious that upper management is OK with what Rick Hahn wants to do, and Rick Hahn is OK with what Kenny and Jerry want to do. If all three of them weren't OK with it, some combination of Rick and Kenny wouldn't be here. They almost have to be on the same page. None of these guys is functioning independent of the others, otherwise this set up would have never happened. No matter who is the "primary" thought guy here, this is a team effort. being on the same page, great point in that post.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 11:08 PM) So here's what I would tell you. I think the use of the term "primary executive" was, perhaps, applicable to Williams during his run as GM. You didn't see Reinsdorf keeping Schueler around in this role of "executive vice president of baseball ops" during that time. But now with Williams in that newly created role, and with Hahn having been his assistant GM all of those years prior, it's really hard to imagine that this so-called rebuild isn't more a co-developed approach then not. Let's also not forget that shortly after the Peavy trade and the start of the rebuild, Kenny was quick to get in the press to let us know he was ready to do the exact same thing after the 2010 season. Unfortunately, that pesky "competitive spirit" of Mr. Reinsdorf gummed things up then, as he overrode that strategic decision that offseason in favor of the Adam Dunn-led "All In" effort. So they may call Hahn the "primary" exec, but the management structure and Kenny seemingly still hanging around quite a bit suggests Hahn isn't so much on his own plan for running this team as we think. actually this was talked about before, and that was when i was arguing the point of how the sox went from a mid 90's win team and made some horrible fa additions and how the pitchers were not, what i would call potent.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 11:55 PM) You're going to deal from the farm, which you alluded to as being a weakness and make it weaker by dealing whatever valuable prospects that you have? That doesn't make too much sense to me, the Sox should be holding on to all their prospects while they build up the farm through the draft and INTL FA as they get to a point where the system is overflowing with prospects. The Sox have guys right now on the ML roster who could net them some very solid returns at the deadline. While nobody is untouchable, if I am Rick Hahn the only players that I am holding on to are Sale, Abreu and Rodon, everyone else is to be had at the right deal. so you are going to tear apart the mlb team to go and acquire these holes the system needs. i am still making the point this team, still have to rebound. we, as fans do not know when or if they will rebound. next point, prospects, any prospects still have odds on whether they will make it or not. second, there is a time line that needs to be considered, next yr. so how long would you wait to address these holes via the minor league system, or via the int'l route? the last point, every one says or have said, the sox do not have the financial horses to address these holes via fa, so how will you fix these holes.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 10:33 PM) If the White Sox do make any moves at the deadline, assuming they are sellers, I would like to see the Sox acquire young ML ready players and not established veterans. I would like for the team to avoid dipping into the farm in any deal. whether b/c of necessities or b/c they are sellers or buyers at the deadline. they, the sox org needs to address the holes that is becoming a major concern. i look at the FA rt and i don't see the help there. i keep staring at the milb for the sox prospects and i really don't see it. the sox have no choice but it may need to trade for them. the only assets the sox may have for this possible trade is using the farm.

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) It may be a waste. I was just responding to your post wondering what would happen if he couldn't make the transition to a starter. I'd much rather draft a starter than a reliever at #8 for sure. Jay is more risky in that aspect because we don't know how easily he'll make the transition from reliever to full time starter. i hope you didn't take this as a searing attack against you. i was intending to address all who thinks that Jay is the way to go. i remember before the season started, Jay's coaches were trying to make him a starter. but i can easily point and say, they or he failed. but the proof is in their performance so far in the college playoff. i am not a coach, i do not have the knowledge nor the resources to know these answers that i asked, but as a fan, i just don't know. too much of a risk for me.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 10:25 PM) That Birmingham line up is abysmal without May, Anderson and Hawkins. yeah you do have a point.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 10:13 PM) @scottmerkin Jesse Crain and Nate Jones pitched in simulated games yesterday. Scheduled to do so again Friday jeez can anyone imagine how much more potent this pen is going to be if a. they both come back and b. if they can pitched like they did in the past.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 09:38 PM) Odds are a numerical expression consisting of a pair of numbers. alright, sounds like my old college professor......

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) There is plenty of room for fluke in a 50 game sample. Look at the other end of the spectrum at who is in first place. Does anyone really think that Houston is a 101 win team? That is the pace they are on. Is Minnesota a 95 win team? That is the pace they are on. I think is pretty clear you will see some significant regression from those teams, just as there are high odds that you will see some significant improvement out of the White Sox. nice .....

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 08:53 PM) For the White Sox plan to work, he has to hit 30-40 homers per season. The failures of Beckham, Viciedo, Melky (this season) and pretty much the entire infield/C to hit with any power (or to utilize their speed efficiently) have brought the White Sox to this relatively desperate position. ok, thanks. my bad.