LDF

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) Probably 20. But that's not the reason I gave up my season tickets after a decade. Going to a game is pricey and sometimes annoying as hell. You will drop 50 bucks on food and beer at least these days and the game experience is ok for the price. However, sitting in front of my or a bars giant HD TV is sometimes just as nice if not better. i agree with the bolded. the new question and it is rhetorical, how is the sox to deal with this??

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:31 PM) I am a long time White Sox fan living in New England during baseball season. I have posted on this site numerous times that I think one of the main problems with White Sox attendance is corporate season tickets. In New England , thousands of companies have season tickets. When I was working, vendors were always offering tickets to Red Sox games. When I travelled to Chicago in 2002 as part of an acquisition team of a large Chicago company, I was offered a coprorate ticket to a Cubs game. These tickets provide free passes to fans which help generate interest in a team and also creates a demand for getting tickets in advance since game day tickets are hard to find w/o scalping. i understand what you are saying. my thinking is as i said the sox had a chance to own chi, but the sox raised their tickets, to max the profit. i remember reading in the newspaper how someone from the sox FO trying to justify the ticket prices. the other part was the team basically imploded and a lot of that has to do with Ozzie and his kids. taking Ozzie out of the discussion, if the sox instead of raising prices, what would happen if they lower then a little. make them like a mlb avg prices. give out more package deals. they have a team who just won the WS and are offering lower tickets and packages. give discounts to season ticket holders if they brought a 2 or 3 yr season ticket package.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:26 PM) What's wrong with a $92M payroll. You don't have to shell out a large payroll to put a good team on the field, look at the Oakland, Tampa Bay and Kansas City. and oak made it to the playoff. but with that, oak always seems to flip their players. the sox have a great core to build from, JR need to spend a little more. again, i am not talking Bos, Yanks, or even Dodgers salary.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 05:03 AM) Except we're not in South Florida or NYC, so that has less of an impact economically. Or the Pacific Coast, where the M's (also Nintendo-owned) and Dodgers have spent a lot of money on Japanese and Korean players (Chan Ho Park, now Ryu). Now if MLB would allow an agreement for the White Sox to play 10-15 home games per season (especially April/May/September) in Havana and we had Abreu, Ramirez, Viciedo and Rodon....THEN, and only THEN, would you have something quite interesting economically. i was wrong on how i said about the Cuban factor. the point i was trying to make, is if there was a possibility of signing an exciting player of any nationality, that is the way to go. get the hype of a player, whether it is an elite pitcher, a base stealing outfielder, this will let the fans from all over to identify and then they will be getting the fans back. the sox, esp this yr will need some sort of a personality, an exciting element. that will help in the sales of tickets. does anyone remember the Big Frank, the Bo Jackson, Vince Coleman, Ricky Henderson and Tim Raines kind of excitement. the sox only have 1 player, Jose A. they need more.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 03:11 AM) Other than Joe Maddon, who have they been able to attract over the last couple of offseasons? First, it was going to be Russell Martin. Then Lester and Peavy, etc. Until they translate that "soft power" into an actual signing, it's pretty meaningless. And then there's the underlying financial stress on the ownership group itself, which can't be discounted. Remember when Ozzie Guillen being the manager was going to translate into a new pipeline into Latin America/Venezuela...and we'd be able to bring in guys like Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez as a result? It resulted in only ONE significant addition, that was F. Garcia, and that was just as much a family thing as a fellow Venezuelan thing. So until they pay Lester $150 million or Scherzer whatever he's going to end up with, we can't take them 100% seriously. Or trading Castro for pitching, at the very least. or to get premiere exciting hispanic base players. now it will be the Cuban factor as i was always mentioning.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:59 AM) It is. It absolutely is. Cub fans go to games, when Sox fans won't. That is completely different. And Cubs attendance last year after something like six straight losing seasons is still higher than Sox attendance in every other year but 2 in their entire history. It even went up a tiny bit last year. And they are now reaping the benefits by getting to go after literally any free agent they want to go after. i am flopping all over like fish out of the water. the biggest problem the sox will always have is if they try to compete or compare themselves to the northsiders. the sox will always loose. don't worry about the northside, don't worry about comparison of the attendance. there is and always be a distinct difference. the sox had a golden opportunity to make chi their own. that was after 2005, they screwed up, b/c of $$$.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:59 AM) And the White Sox, fwiw, really overestimated the "good will" that was built up in 2005. They gouged their ticket buyers from that 2006-2012 time period, finally relenting and lowering prices when it was too late, in 2013. For much of that time period, they had somewhere between the 4th and 6th highest average price for a family of 4 if you factor in tickets, parking, souvenirs and concessions. Recently, dynamic pricing for a number of teams that weren't even really prime draws in the minds of many fans has also left a sour taste. It might have maximized revenue, but it alienated a lot of fans in the process. Going away from the Pepsi discount nights, reliance on fireworks and family days/groups/Sundays...they just placed too much faith in their season ticket buyers and the corporate community to support the team through thick and thin at elevated prices. That model worked for awhile, but came crashing down in 2007 and especially 2009 and with the Dunn fiasco in 2011. If you look at teams like the Dodgers and Angels, they never had to charge nearly what the White Sox were charging their fans. While they have a bigger population base, the disposable income is similar...instead of broadening their fanbase, they narrowed it, putting more and more financial pressure on the remaining season ticket holders and corporate sponsors. They probably could have gotten away with it, too, if they would have managed to consistently field playoff teams. We always hear this argument that the Sox are 18th-26th in attendance but were in the Top 6-12 in terms of spending for many of those years (2006-2012). The problem is that doesn't take into consideration what prices were being charged or revenues derived, it's one simple measure that doesn't square with the fact that no fanbase (other than the Cardinals or Cubs, maybe) will be satisfied with that track record of success (or lack thereof). If you want to change your fortunes, you have to do what the Mariners are doing. They witnessed firsthand one of the model MLB franchises dwindle into an afterthought. It still might not work in the long-term, but, at the very least, their fans can FEEL that the team is doing everything possible to win. 1 or the best post i have read, you said things i was trying and failed at. very good. let me add, when the sox were charging so much, they at least had a relative decent product on the field. but when it was a bad product, lower the ticket price, not to keep it the same. the fans are smart people, they will not spend money foolishly on blind loyalty especially when it is expensive.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:47 AM) Wouldn't have been possible without Jim Thompson's "midnight deadline" being conveniently ignored...the purest definition of a personal relationship leading to a result that permanently altered sports history for two cities (and it wouldn't be a surprise to see Tampa/St. Pete lose the Rays in the future). you have a great point, i just choose not to say it, in so many words.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:29 AM) Much like any other business that gets tax breaks and TIF money, etc. JR has one of the sweetest deal ever with sox park. maybe it was coincidence was a ummm an associate of JR. you know how many times other owners tried to use JR lease as a platform. here is another unrelated example, hockey, and arz. JR was trying to get the city of arz to foot the loan at an ungodly low amount of interest. JR is smart in business but ....... oh well you can fill in the rest.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:27 AM) This is exactly why the Cubs were able to do the rebuild they have done, and why we can't. We have to spend all of our revenues on major league players, because our fans don't have the patience to wait on prospects. Kenny Williams was the perfect GM for White Sox fans. lol you are right about this, the fans of the sox would have a rebellion if the sox brass told or looked as they will do a 3-4 yr rebuild. JR has to find that right mix of rebuilding at the same time produce by putting a sellable product on the field.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:19 AM) The problem is that if we know one thing at all, Illitch and JR don't have the same philosophy or reasons for owning a major league franchise. i strongly disagree on one thing, JR promised all of chicago and Bill Veeck to not take the club out of chi. the plan in the 80 was to move the sox to st petersberg fl then to glendale arz. but JR kept the team in chi b/c of a promise. most owners would have moved the team due to the economics. the main fault is JR loyalty to people who should not be there esp in the development of the players.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:53 AM) As a Sox fan I would kill for their fan base loyalty. It would give the franchise a lot more options for how to operate from year to year, instead of being forced to grasp at shorter straws in search of a short cut to try to revive their bandwagon fans interest. The Cubs are able to do their rebuild the way they did because of their fans. The same goes for the White Sox. no crap. 100% correct..

the happy freaking losers..... the northside... I dare anyone to call a sox fan that crap.,

Sorry, I just got pissed about the whole thing, the sox need to spend just a little more than they originally planned. btw, everyone on this thread was right, and yes everyone was wrong. it is a minor degree.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:35 AM) They cut payroll last year because they were in a transitional year. It didn't make sense for them to spend big on non-core pieces. Declining ticket sales may of had some impact, but I don't think it was the primary driver, especially when you consider the $25M they gained in national TV money. with all due respect, I strongly disagree and I like you as a poster. it was off yr, b/c there wasn't anything in the farm. the minors was bare. why was that??? mismanagement!!!

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:35 AM) You didn't highlight the important part of my last quote. I said the laundry list I referred to "CONTRIBUTED to the alienation of the fan base". I don't think I could be any clearer that the primary reason for the fan base malaise is the lack of winning. But if you want to discount the cumulative effect of years and years of the poor management decisions made by this ownership group, you go right ahead. But I will steadfastly maintain the reason this large market team's attendance and tv ratings are in the toilet as we speak is a combination of all of these things, primary of which is the lack of winning. the poor decision making is also the main strong point of JR. this undying faith in the people he picks. I will say the start of that poor management is JR and his trust in KW. yrs and yrs the farm system has failed. yeah the systems have produced some great players, but between them, it has been a void. why, should we the fans pay for this. yeah the Sox got very lucky, in one yr. 2005. everything work just perfectly. but since then, the system is or was in shambles. that is until Hahn came along. btw for my ref I was a season ticket holder for the Sox form 1987 till 1996 when I had to relocate b/c of my job. I had 4 tickets.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 01:23 AM) BS 2005 happened. 3 million people showed up in 2006. Did 1.3 million of them go back to being mad about 1980? Please. If Sox fans are really still pissed about Harry Carey, the New Comiskey Park, White Flag, or any of that other BS, they really are the worst fans in baseball. I have mix feelings in this discussion, but I do 100% agree with you.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:42 AM) Then please explain to me why the Cubs draw well. They've had an even worse situation and yet they've never had any problem drawing fans. it has been mention by me and some others, the northsiders draws b/c for some reason, they have this mystic or draw that attract the fans, reporters local and national, and corp sponsorship. they even make a saying, to embrace this losing. "Wait till Next YR". the Sox fans, we are the minority, as the late great Bill Veeck, describe it, we are the workers, the every day workers who works for a living, who has no dreams, but the dreams of their family. that is why he had the night games, for a family outing. we as fans demand the product to be put in the field, first. however that type of thinking I truly believe need to be put aside and spend a little more, the fans sees that this is the time, a window of opportunity to go for that elusive championship. we, the Sox fans have a great nucleus of great players to build around, to take the sox to the world series. the second thing that is most hardening to say, the cost of the games are starting to get steep. no one can color code that. however, the commercial income is the 1 hidden source of revenue that the Sox will guard heavily and pretend it doesn't exist. this is a vicious catch 22.

i have a question, does anyone know what news on Dana Eveland. RP - Mets? did he get tendered, is now a FA or what? last i know, the Mets was trying to figure out if they were going to do with both Carlye and Eveland.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 10:05 PM) Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 16m16 minutes ago The negotiations between the Braves and outfielder Nick Markakis have intensified. Hearing the deal could wind up in range of 4/$45m. that is also a good salary, and even a better value if he starts to hit like he did 2 yr+.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 09:58 PM) Yankees now in on Lester. in the range of 23-25 mil, i think that would be a good salary.

there were a list of players that were release or something. a couple of nanes on that list sounder interesting. now having some time, i am looking at the waiver list, i like the idea of getting Francisley Bueno. I know, it is that Cuban factor. i wouldn't mind seeing how he does, esp in spring training.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 02:00 AM) What's the fascination with Reddick? it all up to you like Vin Diesel as an actor.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 09:36 PM) This board just can't seem to spell RHP names right. ahhh it is some guy name that start with "M"

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 09:11 PM) I could totally see a scenario where they're looking to move Alexei at the deadline this year and would listen to offers on a few other guys as well. i am no less or no more of a Sox fan than anyone else on this board, with that said. i really have this unrealistic belief that the sox will do really good in 2015. with that, i believe the sox will listen to offer for Alexei now and at next yr deadline. for now, its up to how big of a rtn does the other team want to sacrifice. at the deadline, how well has Anderson develop and how well is the projected backup doing.