LDF

let me offer another example. would anyone object to bringing in a pitcher who wins 13-18 wins but is also suspect scuffing the ball or using some sort of product on the ball?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 05:37 PM) No, his stats were bad. 10 years ago, a 4.77 ERA (and the corresponding FIP and xFIP and any other metric you'd like to use) were slightly below league average. The MLB average ERA for starting pitchers this year was 3.82. John Danks was almost a full run worse than that. He was a 5th starter whose production could just as easily be replaced by someone like Scott Carroll. and while you are using the advance stat to make this point. I can not dispute it. I really, to my embarrassment, do not know enuf of it to comment however my point is how posters can discard players on a whim. my counter is the union made provisions to prevent that from happening. I am also saying is do not use salary or injury as an excuse to misrepresent that nothing can be done. this is a situation that can not be fix.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 05:12 PM) Nice to actually see some comparisons. No, it does not look good, but there's no need to get rid of him and he's entering what is a make or break year for him. excellent point not only for him, but for a lot of other players.

when he was healthy, he gave his best for the sox. now he is hurt, but stat was not that bad. posters are using his salary for getting rid of him or he is not worth that salary. where is all the backing that he should be getting. he was being paid for his success. the union made sure that a player should not be punish if he is hurt.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 04:34 PM) because he was a high school prospect with limited experience even at that level because of his football time/injuries...aggressively promoted perhaps too quickly, although his results were still pretty great overall in 2012 despite the obvious flaws in his hitting approach and pitch identification there is no fine line for 2 different players. there should be 1 fine line and all prospect should be gage as such. just b/c a player has a lousy yr, the fans should not give up on that player, but should be given a 2nd chance. however the org should need to address the possibility of failure.

what gets me is when Danks signed his contract, he was healthy. he got hurt in the performance of his job, pitching for the white sox. is it his fault that he got hurt or that he sign a contract before he got hurt. this is the main reason why the players combine and formed the union. to protect themselves. if no team wants to take a risk on him the player but they then have to take his contract. he pitch well for the sox, before his injury and still should have loyalty of the fans. if not, then fans are indeed fickle.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) well, he was #1 coming into 2013, but that season pushed him back in almost everyone's minds.... but no one gave up on him as posters have done with Davidson.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 03:16 PM) I find it hard to believe others don't think Q has any say in roster input after Leddy was traded. Q should have input and no one is saying different. but Bowman is the boss. you can not have 2 bosses.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 05:22 AM) Except Clayton wasn't anywhere close to that 2005 team, Uribe/Ozuna were. Ozuna's the only one that has been "officially" caught...although there were rumors about Rowand, etc. you misread my statement or I wrote it wrong. I know clayton was not with the team. I was saying, my feelings of negativity toward certain people in the employment of the sox org, I will put my personal opinion aside. everything can not get better than having a world series champion, now for my greedy side, when is the next championship winner.

QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 08:04 AM) that is a money list, i would have Ravelo at 11 but spot on. the thing I like, but at first was questioning my selection of Hawkins. but I am glad that the group is in the same thinking. Hawkins, I really thought he redeem himself and push his star to the top 10.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 04:30 AM) Anderson playing SS tonight. So far he's 1/3, 2B, 2 RBI,K Bassitt pitching in relief. So far 2.2IP, 2 hits, 2BB, 3K, 0 runs any info on his defense??

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 04:08 AM) I didn't like Clayton either. He was another horrific acquisition in Sox history. Let's face it, without 05, we have a very checkered rate of success in this organization. as you said, 05 wipe the slate clean except for Clayton.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 07:37 PM) I think the reality is that it was probably about keeping Q happy. There two eras for Bowman, he worked masterfully when in intense cap restrictions. But that wears you down and probably wore the team down. The second era of success (cup) they were in much better shape. They should have remained disciplined, but Q has a say too, and I'm guessing there was an organizational push to reward the players who contributed (falsely, this time). It's tough to have so much turnover. We know that Q likes to rest his players. For him to do that, he needs players he trusts will put in the work without him dogging them. This likely played a factor. It doesn't mean it's not a mistake, but these are hard decisions, even if it's obvious from a production standpoint. I hate to question this, but I am basing this on my own opinion. I don't agree, this was Bowman and all his. on the hockey site, most of the posters where questioning the deal. the stats proved it, he had a great playoff, but not 4 mil a yr worth. the thing is, unless we, the fans has an ear in when the talk was going on, no one will know the truth.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 01:11 AM) Absolutely. I'm looking forward to it, if only we could get the WS over with... For some reason I think Hahn will come up with a few surprises that nobody has thought of. for sure on that.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 02:06 AM) Would you trade Spencer Adams for Dayan Viciedo? there are factors to think about. the #1 factor is empty seats. if a team is looking at getting help to put them in the playoff. those seats are revenue. then you need to think of all the commercial venture and their money coming in. this is what I learned from $$$ Bill of the hawks in the 80's. money will do the talking. now lets look at what they will give up. Adams, his control is a minimum and will be around 4 yrs before the team start to see a rtn, maybe. lets not forget, injury risk, or the prospect never delivers. ~~~~ Edit ~~~~ I was thinking, the sentence about $$$ Bill, it sounded as I knew him personally. the answer is no. I was using his example of how he ran the team and what leaked for the GM meeting when the new owners were coming in.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 01:00 AM) Not nearly as exciting or important as most of the real jobs you older members posses, but it does appear I will FINALLY be moving on from my HS Chili's job that I've worked at for 6 1/2 years and moving up slightly to a part-time job at Costco. Still not the career job I am seeking, but in the meantime it pays much better, has great benefits, and *should* be a less hostile environment since my GM at Chilis and I do not get along very well. At the very least, this job may allow me to move out on my own if I can pull 30 hours or so a week. I should be making about $1200 or so a month which sadly is about 3x as much as I am making now. Thank god I'm not materialistic, because I'm actually managing to save money on my $100 a week I make now. lol, that's so sad. if you want a really great job for great money...... the oil fields. they are shipping many int'l people to fill the jobs.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 12:59 AM) Let's see if he regains his velocity, control and his confidence. If he does, then sure, return him to the Charlotte rotation but if not not then his best chances are in the pen. No matter what, he's going to have to put some kind of movement on that fastball because a straight low 90's fastball is not going to blow away too many hitters. Johnson has ALOT of work to do. I totally agree come spring, there are some question that will be answered. Johnson, Davidson, DV, additional pitching, fa's signing. its going to be a great offseason.

QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 12:39 AM) Why do you dislike him more than all others? I would have gone with a smartarse answer but I will give this example. he was so dislike by his teammates that during meals, it was reported that no one sat with him at his table. during the half mast for the 9/11 he was the only 1 still sitting. now that is what I remember. my memory took a hit and I would be happy to admit if I was wrong on the 9/11

It may be a little too silly to think about, but screw it, trade DV to a team in the comp rnd and for their pick. I will be happy.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 05:17 AM) He is overrated, but that doesn't mean he isn't a pretty solid to good player. Derek Jeter was probably the most overrated player I've ever see in my life, but that doesn't mean he still wasn't great. I feel like Cespedes is regarded as a perennial all-star who can completely change a lineup. He's not. .260, 23 HR, .316 OBP career averages with average to well below average defense is comparable to like Marlon Byrd's 2014 season. In fact, their seasons were very similar. Cespedes - .260 avg, 22 HR, .301 OBP, 5.4% BB, .450 SLG, 109 wRC+ Byrd ------ .264 avg, 25 HR, .316 OBP, 5.5% BB, .445 SLG, 109 wRC+ Not saying they have the same value, obviously, just saying people think of Cespedes way too highly in my mind when his bat really isn't very elite, and his defense has never been above average. He's a nice bat to have, but he's not a bat you NEED to have. I really do not think that is the case of people thinking too highly on him. I am still at a lost, but its kool. I respect what you are saying. the 1 element that others might need to add, is his clubhouse presence. I can't speak of others, b/c they do not interest me.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 11:14 PM) Here's the rationality behind Danks, for me at least. 1.) We've already got three lefty starting pitchers penciled in for the future in Sale, Q, and Rodon. Having a fourth lefty rather than two RHSP's isn't ideal in my mind. 2.) I've pretty much given up on Danks after holding out hope for his return to form last season. 3.) If we ate a good amount of his contract or traded him as a part of a package for another player with a bloated contract... we could indeed get him off our books. if the sox could have traded Danks, I believe they would have done so. he is the sox to keep. oops I forgot, I promise I would not post anything more on Danks.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 12:30 AM) Andre Ethier for example. or Crawford. I would take either one and I wouldn't care if the dodgers will take Danks. as long Dodgers add additional players to that package from their farm system. how bad do the dodgers want Crawford or Ethier off their roster, start enticing ........

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 21, 2014 -> 12:00 AM) My dislike of Melky yes, is partly because of what he did. But I also think he's a very blah baseball player. He reminds me of Milton Bradley. If he signs with the Sox I could see disliking him as much as anybody who has worn the uniform. Anybody but Melky, please. I understand what you are saying. totally out of the blue. my dislike is Royce Clayton and no matter what, I don't think anyone will come close to him.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 06:01 AM) I believe if it's like a million/year or over or thereabout, it still counts against the cap even if he's playing in the AHL. There's no loophole to use like that, there used to be though. the saving will be well worth burying him in the minors. I hated it when Bowman gave him that contract. I guess without daddy looking over his shoulder this one time hurt.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 07:26 PM) I know I'm biased but they should be giving Seager time at 3B considering he will never play SS consistently in the MLB. or for that fact maybe Anderson. just my thoughts.