LDF

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) While quality is obviously important I think quantity also needs to be considered given the present lack of position player talent throughout the organization. 1 of Seager/Pederson would have to be involved, but I think I might take a package of lesser guys rather than trying to hold out for both. 1 of Pederson/Seager + 1 of kikè Hernandez/Jose Peraza, + Austin Barnes, + Scott Van Slyke sounds like a great package to me. Maybe even DeLeon too if it's Sale involved. going with the numbers you mention, i too am looking for quantity and i hate that i needed to look at this way. but those holes are glaring. i will not go for ped nor seag nor urias, instead i am looking for a little more in prospects. i like hernandez + peraza move to ss + barnes there is some question as of late on whether he can catch at the mlb level + holmes + farmer + Heredia + comp pick

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 08:39 PM) Diamondbacks are doing things right. Build up their squad through the farm system, then supplementing with stars where needed. They actually went through with a patient approach (fanbase down there allows for it better I'm guessing) and it's working out so far. They need another starter at least. I'd expect them to make the playoffs in 2017. I just rather them give that deal to a younger player in Price. yep, it is easier when your team is the only team in town.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 08:37 PM) Any idea on what can be available at that time? Sox really need to hit on those picks and hopefully they are hitters. Last hitter they've developed internally has been who? Carlos Lee?? i like some hitters that will be projected to be in the draft. they, the sox can go any route. after the top 3 fav pitcher, there is 2 really good pitcher who got hurt, unknown factor for the fans, 1 college pitcher is lights out but he will not face any comp, and another interesting pitcher ... it is or will be fun to watch all of them next ncaa season.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:48 PM) Yeah they could beef up their rotation signing Cueto and then dipping into the farm to get Q. well take a look at this, this way, sfo is not going to let them walk away in the fa market without wanting to fight, they still feel as they still can make it to the playoff, as long they beat the dodgers. but with stewart and larussa in arz, and that young core of players. i would be looking over my shoulder if i was the dodgers. the dodgers wanted to use less money and more cost control pitchers, but circumstances may not let them. the dodgers have a core of players that will be untouchables. do you really see outside this core, players who can help???

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:46 PM) Losing out on their #2 guy and seeing him in the same division might be the kind of thing that makes the Dodgers desperate enough to open up the vault for one of our guys? i would love to have a good exchange for a trade, as long as the sox also gets in the pkg from the dodgers, their 2 comp picks in next yr draft.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:46 PM) I hate seeing the comments that say the Sox should trade Sale because of his "injury concerns". How is he that different from any other pitcher? Yeah, he has a funky motion, but he's so tall and lanky that I don't think it's as bad for his elbow/arm/shoulder as people make it out to be. People have said that he's a TJ surgery waiting to happen since the day he was drafted, and nothing significant has happened to him yet. Knock on wood that nothing ever does. excellent point, i have stop fighting this fight. my canned answer is by default, all pitchers are candidates.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) Funny you mention Glavine. I used to say the same thing about Maddux and how he would get calls off the plate, not that he wasn't good but I did wonder if he got the calls because he's Maddux or because his catcher was just that good. I chaulked it up to Maddux having the rep of being a great pitcher so he got the calls. Just my opinion. I think there's something to be said about pitch framing but its over blown imo. Give me a catcher that can call a good game, block balls in the dirt and throw out base stealers at a good clip and I'm happy. Anything more than that I consider to be a blessing from the baseball gods. I will say that in order to get the corner of the plate calls it probably takes a combination of the pitcher throwing close to the corner in the first place, the catcher needs a steady glove and the pitchers rep for throwing strikes. I think all three of these have an effect how the ump will call the pitch. is there such a graph or stat that show the results of the 2 new catcher in this area of their game???

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 01:32 PM) . I am happy to see these changes. As for defense, I think it depends on how much credence one gives to these framing stats. Per the stats, Flowers is top notch. But I think there are a lot of variables in the stats that haven't been fully vetted. Is it the catcher or is it the pitcher that the catcher catches? And then there is the ump- wide zone v right zone. I remember when Tom Glavine pitched, he would consistently get 4 extra inches on the outside corner. Was they because of him or was he served by the greatest set of framing catchers ever?? Just from my unscientific and not statistically analyzed observations of watching ballgames, I think lefties get more corner calls than righties. Flowers catches a lot of lefties. to some degree, the so called credence is important, b/c of the pitchers mind set. thru the time of baseball, pitchers have their favorites catcher catch for them. but they are professional and they will learn to work with the new catchers.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 09:34 PM) I don't have time to address the framing argument any further at the moment, although I wish I did because it's a great discussion. But as I posted in the other thread about Flowers' non-tender, people saying his hitting was trash are just simply not paying attention to the rest of the league. He struck out a lot. His ceiling was low. And I'd love to be able to describe the Sox' primary catcher as something more than "average for his league." But his numbers match up closely with the aggregate totals for catchers in the American League, except his rotten 2013. Go look it up for yourself. i really hope you don't take this wrong, and i am sure the merits of any possible counters would be great reading. however, the sox FO felt it was necessary for the lack offense that position generated. if they thought they would sacrifice the defensive merits of more offense, then who are we to say otherwise. btw, i agree with the move. this team needs offense.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) It's pretty awesome to see a small market team go big after big talent to compliment the great core they already have. Wish more "small market" teams saw the value in it. also, it didn't hurt to have a payroll at the time of 34 +/- mil.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:37 PM) Anyone else think it's possible they deal Q for a great return and then sign someone like Kazmir or Leake or the Japanese pitcher to take his spot? I just think once Cueto and Samardzija sign there won't be too many teams throwing money at these guys (though I guess it's possible Dodgers sign one of those guys then another listed above). that is a great question, i really think they have no choice but to look into the fa market for a sp. however the rtn on that will be far less than what many would be hoping. we the fans will like a sp like leake, the sox will pick up someone like a hector noesi .... a sp that will not cost much.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:32 AM) Gotcha. Anyone have a website with this information listed? I'm wondering what the best or most realistic position we could be in. Is it feasible we pick at #10 and #25? I feel like we are still waiting for the Yankees, Dodgers, Angels, Rangers, Cardinals, and Giants to lose a pick. lost draft picks due to signing free agents: ~~~ The Detroit Tigers lose their second round pick, pick TBD, for signing Jordan Zimmerman ~~~ The Chicago Cubs lose their first round pick, pick No. 28, for signing John Lackey ~~~ The Arizona Diamondbacks lose their first round pick, pick No. 13, for signing Zack Greinke updated fri midnight 12-4

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 10:50 PM) The Sox apparently had a deal in place to trade for Cabrera 7-8 years ago (whichever offseason he was traded). Guillen blabbed about it before it happened. Detroit heard this, and offered the Marlins a better package for him, which they accepted. that is correct i remember that as well, sorry, i didn't know you referred to that.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 10:44 PM) And for good reason... I mean, Miguel Cabrera would be our 1B/DH without Guillen... i don't understand???

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) Very quick fall. Maybe too quick. unless bos pulls him back... to gage the interest for maybe a trade??? i do not know the rules. so don't shoot the msg'er

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 10:05 PM) Your english is much better than some of the people born in this country especially my state. yeah ... thank god to spell check the best weapon .... go with the flow. water of the ducks back so to speak.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 10:31 PM) This makes me happy as a Cubs hater here here.... i agree. but for 2 yrs, and a savings of 1 mil thru 2 mil per compare to sign shark for 4 yrs at 18 per.... what a burn for shark.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 09:59 PM) How do race and grammar have anything to do with each other? I'm confused. i am 1/2 hispanic and my english was horrible b/c of my spanish background. i had to learn english which i failed may times. the compositional part killed me and even till today. no matter how many times i took extra classes. i never got my degree in college b/c of that. it is hard, if you really do not know english or born into a family that is all english speaking.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 09:57 PM) But then Bonds is already on base, which is still a win for his team rather then the 67% chance that he would have gotten out. and in a playoff game, who cares, then the setup is for a double play. if bond was up and did a mono a mono against the pitcher and won that battle, his whole team gets pump up.

lets keep this thing civil. look at my posts.... lousy english even worst sentence structure. i am sorry but that is my racial side in me doing that no matter how hard i studied english. now my post were criticize alot until the mods / admin came and step it. the first point is, they will step in if really needed. trust me. second, if some posters can't counter a good post, yours, and attack you, know what they are doing. accept you did the right comment and btw, what does it matter in the big scheme .... a few more line and a new page is started and no one will remember... except you. don't let it eat at you.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 09:46 PM) There is certainly an argument to be had that position players are more valuable on average than pitchers, especially in the current offense-starved environment, but that's what we have WAR for anyway. Just using # of games played/impacted is lazy analysis. There's a lot more that goes into it. Despite only starting 27 games in 2014, Kershaw had the highest WAR in the National League that year. In the 5 years from 1998-2002, Randy Johnson had more cumulative WAR than Barry Bonds, the best position player isn't always more valuable than the best starting pitcher. it is more important to have a well rounded lineup who can do damages on the pitchers, surrounding your srperstar with key players. i a game that #1 sp who is elite can not duck the other team players if they are avg or above.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 09:44 PM) If counter that extreme example with another, Barry Bonds. ok lets go with bond, playoff time. 1 game... bond vs sale. all things being equal. sale, pitches around bond if the ball is outside the strike zone ok he may swing or not. if not, 4 balls he walks. sale hereby negated bonds at bat. do that 3 more times. so what, sale just took the best weapon had in bond out of the game by walking him.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 08:53 PM) That's such an odd way to look at it. Machado impacted 162 games last year. Sale impacted 31. but in a game that really counts, the sp will go 9 innings and at a minimum of 27 batters. i that game, a really good hitter will face a pitcher maybe 4 x.... and of those minimum 4 x, the pitcher will pitch away, walk then if really needed. thereby making him as a person who is on the sideline. in other words he will do no damage.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 08:39 PM) I dont believe that GMs are going to be to gun shy to pull the triggers on deals. Same would be saying GMs are hesitant for giving out to much money to free agents. Somebody always does give up alot to get something back. Hahn even said on the interview saying that with how much pitchers like price and greinke are getting that some GMs are turning to trading for pitchers. The Rangers took a shot at hamels and got them to the playoffs. Because the diversity of teams in baseball very from having big money to needing to be economical changes that way things are done some time can't spend the bigger money on needs but can acquire it with trades cause they have a ton of prospects. Rockies stay can't spend huge money on pitchers and because if where they play big time pitchers hesitate on playing there so with them having the 3rd best farm system in baseball the can try to acquire them with prospects you may be right, but i have a feeling that they will not be wild in those trades... they will look for the best deal. now there will be a team who will be aggressive.

ok, lets think about this, the sox will never get the prospect / players that will warrant what many will think is a fair price. i believe we can all agree to that. now i am looking at the playoff. that first game is, in many opinions, is crucial. it helps set the way the series may go. more importantly, it will give that team a huge boost. now all team will put there best pitcher there. the true, elite #1 sp on the team to take on the other teams #1 sp. it is a battle of the arms to put it mildly. for us, it is Sale, not Q and not Rodon. it is Sale.