Chisoxfn

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:49 PM) Crawford is so much more of an offensive threat than Rowand, and he's improving each season. The thing I love is every season Crawford has gotten better and he's already good. He has the ability to be a pretty dynamic player.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:48 PM) You know how most people at this site think Anderson won't really be a step down from Rowand? Well Crawford isn't really that much more in value than Rowand. So what gives? He just fits nicely in the 2-hole? Imo, Crawford >>> Rowand offensively and is a perfect fit for the 2 hole. Crawford has more pop, more speed, can steal more bases, basically does everything >>> Rowand with the exception of defense. Plus he's a few years younger and signed long term.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:46 PM) Whoever they get, this is exactly the thought process. They move Chris Young in, and put whoever in LF, that could be somebody they move over, or Jerry Owens. I don't think you will see Young, Owens, or Sweeney traded. My thought is its really unrealistic to expect to develop all 3 of them. If you could develop one of them (C. Young preferably) and find Crawford you now have two guys that will be young and hopefully talented for a long time. Than you see what happens with Dye. If Sweeney turns into that guy, than bam. I couldn't see Owens, Young and Crawford working simply because defensively it makes no sense, you'd have no RFers.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:43 PM) We could make this deal with the thought process that Crawford gets a year in CF, and then we let Pods go after this season. Then, you move Crawford to LF, and put C. Young in CF. Thats my thought. I just hate the idea of Pods playing CF. I thought he was terrible LFer so I have little expectations for him in CF (even though he's played it plenty). But do you think there is the possibility of a 3rd team (say the Dodgers) going after Huff or Lugo and than giving up the pitching prospect the Drays would want (with the Sox sweetening the deal for the Dodgers by giving up one of its outfield prospects) and than dealing Fields and Tracey to the Rays. I think talent wise a Fields/Tracey/Anderson deal is worthy, its just Anderson (the best chip we have that the club is willing to give up) doesn't seem to fit the DRays needs. The other question is who is after Crawford. It seems like everyone is drooling for Pierre so if you could jump quick on Crawford it could be a real score. However if Pierre goes to the Yanks, Finley eventually goes to Boston (as part of the Manny deal) and the Yanks sign Johnny Damon. Well now the Drays market for Crawford has slimmed down and the Sox would once again be in a good position. I definately see potential here. I'd think the best person for this would be Willsy (who still has definate ties to the Sox and is now covering the Drays).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:39 PM) Fair enough, but I just dont think right now there is a real limit for Kenny right now. I know im probably living in a dream world with that statement, but o well, im living in a dream world. I really have alot of faith in management, and I think JR knows the Sox are in a position to do alot of damage in the league in the next two years, so he wants to make a strong push now... Well you and I feel the same way about having high expectations following a World Series and the Sox should be able to make moves that they couldn't have made in years past. I think we have already seen this with Paulie resigning and Thome joining him. Plus a move of Crawford, well just wow.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:40 PM) I can say that between stating that Ozzie would suck in the playoffs and that PK would go elsewhere, I'm very happy I've been wrong about those things. However, you and I were about the only ones talking about how once the Sox clinched they would pretty much blow up. It was just a matter of getting the monkey off there back and for them to relax. Also since were dishing out compliments I echo Rowand and Tony's sentiments about you being one of the best posters on this board.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:39 PM) http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=6870 Sounds like they could potentially try him in CF. If they make this deal we will obviously have downgraded defensively in the OF, but who knows how much.

QUOTE(ottawa_sox @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:37 PM) This is the one guy I would like the Sox to pick up. What about the Twins offering him the 3rd base job? Thats another team offering it. I figure if it comes to money, The Dodgers will offer more than the Twins. Plus I'm guessing he'd rather play on grass than turf (especially considering he's older and had that serious knee injury early in his career).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:37 PM) I love Fathom, one the best posters here IMO. He knows that, and thats why I can give him crap about it. He also might be right. We all could be WAY off in the demands for Crawford. Remember what they wanted for Huff at the deadline..... At least there is a new GM in charge.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:36 PM) I am just going off of what Bruce Levine and Mark Gonzales have said, which is around $85 million. This is the same Levine that keeps saying the Sox aren't interested in Pierre. I'm not saying the Sox will get him, but there is interest.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:35 PM) Carl has played 51 games in CF. I was wondering why he isn't a CF. He is a good athlete, good build but does he get bad jumps or is it more of the fact that Rocco was there and they had other guys that were just better (like Gathright?) defensively. I thought he originally played some CF. Does he have a really weak arm?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:34 PM) I just dont understand how anyone of the board can make payroll perdictions. I havent heard a thing about where JR wants to set the bar at. I've long said we'd be right around 90 million and I think thats where they will stand, but I completely agree. Its not like we are talking about adding Manny's contract. Plus they still have some flexibility because I still think come spring training someone will be willing to take a shot on Duque (maybe the Sox pick up a mill or two) but someone will take a shot.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:32 PM) The Winter Meetings get almost everyone a little giddy, it's almost as exciting as Opening Day. This time around I expected the Sox to be quiet (which meant I'd be able to focus and study) but now I'm gonna be following this Carl Crawford stuff. I was never a huge fan of the Pierre thing, but I really like the Crawford idea. Only major problem is who plays CF (I assume Crawford isn't a CF) and I don't think much of Pods out there.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:31 PM) Says who? Seriously, if we are talking about getting Pierre than I see no reason why they couldn't acquire Crawford. He is signed to a very fair deal long term.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) I GUARANTEE that Tampa would get a better deal from another team. The only thing I can think of is if Tampa doesn't get a #1 pitching prospect from someone else. Tracey is more of a #2 type pitching prospect (like a B prospect...ie has potential but isn't really loved by some). Fields definately is more an A type prospect, but he has potential flaws and doesn't have the greatest minor league track record (statistically speaking, but has tools). The only question is could a 3rd team enter this (say a team looking for Huff, maybe the Dodgers??) who offer up a good pitching prospect and get something like Huff and Brian Anderson or a good outfielder from the Sox). The Sox spin Anderson for the pitching prospect and than give up something like Tracey, Fields and another pitching prospect or even a guy like Marte. Heck, couldn't Marte go to a 3rd team along with something for a pretty good pitching prospect. I could see a lot of ways for the Sox to get that pitching prospect, especially since you know the Drays are trying to move Lugo/Huff and many teams are interested in them as well.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:28 PM) Pods Crawford Dye Thome Kong Iguchi Pierzynski Uribe Crede That lineup would be SO solid. I'd flop Dye and Kong.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:25 PM) You're nuts if you think that Tampa won't require the trade partner to include a big time pitcher/pitching prospect in the deal. Would Ray Liotta and Sean Tracey combined work, plus Josh Fields

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:24 PM) How much would you give to hear what is said in the suite of the Sox at the winter meetings. Im sure some of the names that come up would leave us shocked. God that would be fun.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:17 PM) No knock against Owens, but just looking at it from the perspective of how excited we are for Owens who is AA at 24, while Crawford has been great in the MLB the last 4 years at 24. Check that, how excited some of you are for Owens. I'm much more excited for Brian Anderson and Chris Young. Owens is a really good athlete though, but he's going to have to really hone his baseball skills if he's going to turn into a good player. He needs to improve defensively and work very hard at his baserunning (and increasing his stolen base numbers while not getting thrown out often), plus as a leadoff type hitter he'll have to make sure he can cut down his k's and draw more walks.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:10 PM) Here's a hilarious example of how the Cubs stupidly overpaid Neifi Perez: Keep in mind that both Neifi Perez and Deivi Cruz play the same positions (SS, 2B, and 3B). Neifi Perez is 32 years old while Deivi Cruz is 33 years old. Neifi Perez's career stats: .270 AVG .301 OBP .380 SLG .681 OPS Deivi Cruz's career stats: .269 AVG .293 OBP .388 SLG .682 OPS Neifi is superior defensively though (I think he won a gold glove in Colorado, or at least I thought he did) and had himself a pretty solid year with the Cubs. Deivi Cruz has kind of resurfaced. I really don't think the Cubs did anything wrong with that contract for Neiffi. He played quite solid for them last year. Although his OBP was downright disgusting.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:15 PM) Isn't Jerry Owens 24? Just mind boggling how Crawford is 24 and the guy is an established lead off hitter. Ya, but Owens was injured and of course played in college. Hell just think of how good Arod was at 24.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:12 PM) But we have Micah Schurestein (sp?,) I am semi-serious and partially being sarcastic. I actually think he may have a decent future. I'm one of the few that likes Micah more than Fields so I consider it a win to move Fields because it opens up a spot in AA for Micah. As of now it looks like either Fields gets rushed to AAA (cause I don't think he's ready) or Micah stays a while longer in WS (until Fields gets promoted) cause I dont' see both in Bham. Fields is a former 1st rounder and has a high upside, but he's yet to do enough to cement a really high trade value. Although there isn't much doubt to his potential and ability. Tracey has as good of an arm as any righty in our system (although he's older than most prospects, he's still what I'd consider an average pitching prospect with an above average arm). Rogo is more of an organizational guy but I could see a team liking him because he's near major league ready (its a good secondary piece, but I don't know if that main piece is in there).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:09 PM) O'boy, this is going to be a 25 page thread, I can see it now. I just cant see a deal centered around Fields is going to get the job done, not after what they were asking for Huff, but I guess anything can happen. Fields,Tracy, and maybe Rogo for Crawford? Please? That would be nice. I'm guessing the Drays would want pitching. Hell, I'm not all that familiar with there needs. They obviously plan on using Baldelli in center and I'm assuming Gaithright and Crawford will be moved. They have Delmon Young to play one of the OF spots and I know they have a younger OF that played well for them last year (Johnny Ghomes or something). So would they even have interest in an OF prospect or are they moving Crawford because his contract is due to pay him more money than they want to invest? Obviously Tracey would be a fit and they really don't have any 3rd base prospects (unless they decide to move Upton there and I don't see that happening). Lugo will be gone during the offseason as will Huff (so I can definately see the interest in Fields). Hell, I even see the interest in Rogo potentially. I just don't know if that would be enough, I'd think they'd want one upper echelon prospect. We can't really offer them much at catching (our talent is at lower levels in Francisco and Lucy) and middle infield wise we are weak (plus they have BJ, unless of course they want Willie). We are OF strong, still have some good pitching prospects, and than there is Fields. If we could make that deal I'd do it, although our system would be pretty thin, I'd have zero problem dealing prospects for a 24 year old outfielder that is already good and is getting better ever year.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:04 PM) That's fine, but they're not asking for Tracey. McCarthy is their request. I doubt that "or" exists in trade negotiations. Too bad we don't live on the East Coast, where Fields could be boasted as the next great 3B of our generation. Only needless hype would convince teams to include him as a major part of any trade. I don't know if they'd even have interest in Brian Anderson, but I'd think Brian Anderson, Josh Fields and Sean Tracey would be a pretty darn strong package. Those are 3 guys that I believe will be major leaguers and solid ones at that. If that package wouldn't get it done, I don't know what would (I don't know if the Sox would do that,and the only question I'd have is whether they would be intersted in an OF prospect like Anderson).

Crawford will be 24 at the start of the season and will be entering his 4th full MLB season. His avg has went up every single year, although his K's and BB's have hovered around the same clip. He is a great basestealer (2 seasons with 50 plus steals and stole 46 last year while being caught just 8 times). Not only that but he has some pop (.800 OPS last year) and has seen his HR total climb every year in the big (15 triples last year too, ridiculous, he had 19 the previous year). His doubles total has also continually climbed. After looking more and more at this, Carl Crawford way >>> Juan Pierre. The one thing you could gripe about Crawford is the fact that he posted a .331 OBP the past two years, but I'd like to think that could improve with maturity. I have no idea what type of defensive player he is, but I nkow I've seen him make some good plays (But I don't know if he gets good jumps or anything, I assume he's not great cause if he got good jumps he could probably play CF). Put me on the Crawford bandwagon. If were going to make a deal I'd be more than willing to move Brian Anderson and Josh Fields for Carl Crawford. In fact I'd throw in one of our pitching prospects if thats what it took. He's younger, cheaper and in my opinion a better player than Pierre. Plus there isn't the park adjustment. I think he'd be a really nice fit in the 2 hole. I can definately see him turning into a ..320 AVG, .350-.360 OBP, 20 HR, .850 OPS, 50 Steals type of player. I am dreaming about the possibility of this. Please Kenny, pretty please.