Chisoxfn

QUOTE(OldSox2 @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) Jim H. I wasn't complaining. I saw my name and responded. I don't think they should have given up Gio. Just my opinion. Jason, I remember you liked Rupe also. I know he came up in September and looked okay in one game, as I recall. But that Everett trade is old news. Thome/gio is not. We'll see. If he hits like he did five yrs ago, fine. If he hits like he did last yr, not fine. And Jim H, you sound as if the 2005 team was composed of vets we got for prospects. Not so, other than Freddy. Marte we got for a prospect, but that was not significant. Uribe for Miles, but he was not a prospect like Reed/Gio. Anyone else? I'm delighted you can hang on to the World Series trophy. I guarantee you I was cheering and pulling for the Sox as much as you were. My history as a Sox fan goes waaay back. Relax. There were quite a few people that raved about Miles. We got Uribe. Guerrier was a guy that was being talked up as a potential 5th starter candidate when the Sox shipped him off for Marte (he was a prospect and has turned into a solid reliever in Minny) Joe Valentine was a guy that many people liked and we dealt him for Cotts (along with Foulke) Reed and Morse were both good prospects (plus Olivo) and we got Garcia We traded Mike Cameron (a good young player) to get Konerko Carl Everett was on the team because we made a trade to go get him the year before (giving up Majewksi, whose a solid reliever). Everett may not have been great, but he was an integral part of the team. Fact of the matter is, the Sox made good use out of dealing some prospects. They also made use out of developing some in-house guys. Bmac, Buehrle, Garland (I consider this in-house), Jenks (not really in house, but we moved him to the pen), Rowand, Crede. They had a good combo and they won the world series. They woudln't have done that had they not been willing to give up some of those prospects listed above. No team is going to hold onto all there prospects and Kenny has done a good job keeping certain ones and getting rid of others. Yes, I was high on Rupe, but he was an A ball pitcher and those guys don't have value (unless your a very high draft pick or throw 99 MPH).

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 07:33 PM) Regardless of what happens tonight, this game REALLY shows how much we need Ben. We've done a great job not turning it over, and still are struggling to score. Without Ben's offensive firepower, we aren't the same. Disagree, the Bulls just didn't shoot the ball well tonight for the most part. They got plenty of open looks. Hinrich played great. They lost this game because they started the game horrid and than they couldn't protect the ball in the 4th quarter.

I'd find a way to get Heads a girl. But in all seriousness, I'd like to get my dad the scout seats for a Dodgers game (it will probably be a few more years till I can afford it). It will be a small price to pay for all that he's given to me during my life.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) I think it looks fantastic. I wonder if the sequels are in the making already, or if they are going to try and gauge the success of the first one before they commit to it. Despite it being a kids based movie/story, it looks really interesting. I'll probably check it out eventually. The effects look fantastic.

QUOTE(maggliopipe @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 01:16 PM) so does he still need to stay on texas' major league roster all season? Yep. If he doesn't than they will have to offer him back to the Sox who would in turn have the right to pay 25,000 to buy them back (they got 50,000 from KC) or the White Sox could opt not to buy him back, allowing the Rangers or any other team to keep him (basically he goes through waivers or something of that process and become a ML FA, IIRC). The Rangers could also negotiate with the White Sox on a trade that would allow them to keep Castro, but let him go to the minors.

QUOTE(OldSox2 @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 02:45 PM) Gene and Jason: I'm back, and, yes, I hated giving up Gio and Haigwood. Especially Gio. Giving up Rowand for Thome should have been plenty. We did the Phillies a big time favor by taking Thome off their hands. Why did we have to give up Gio? I also hated the Jeremy Reed trade, but I softened after we signed Freddy. At first there was no indication we would sign him, and that's when I did most of my b****ing. I expect Reed to come into his own in '06. I also hated the first Everett trade. Still do. Rupe should stick this year, Webster soon will, and Rodriquez will too if he is over his chair throwing punishment. Prospect trades can backfire big time. Trading Johnny Calison for Gene Freese in '59 was the worst. Some of the trades we made FOR prospects were okay. Like getting Garland for Matt Karchner. I loved that one. Years ago, when we traded for guys like Fox, Pierce, Minoso (the first time) we were getting prospects for over the hill players. Other teams had similar results from trades for Smoltz, Bagwell, and many others. So now we are getting an old, way past his prime player in Thome, who is expensive, slow, injured too often, didn't hit a lick last year for a solid major leaguer in Rowand who is entering his prime. Still, I can accept that risk, but giving up a stud like Gio was way over the top. Unnecessary, considering the risk we are undertaking with Thome. Sorry if my previous b****ing annoyed you. I ws just on a rant. I thought that's what this board is for. later. Just want to point out one thing. Anthony Webster was available for all to have this off-season (via the Rule V IIRC). Josh Rupe stunk in the majors his first time around and while I'm a Rupe fan, there is far from a guarantee he will have any sucess. As far as Rodriguez goes, he wasn't throwing like he did when the Sox had him. How were they supposed to know his velocity was going to jump and he'd take off in the Rangers organization (I'll give the Rangers people credit, but Rodriguez also has some mental issues...ie the chair throwing incident). As far as Gio/Haig go, when you get the type of cash the Sox got from the Phils it means your going to give up prospects. The Sox have a rotation that for the most part is expected (and we hope will be) in tact for the next few years so Kenny was able to trade a couple prospects at peak value, which he did. Whether you develop them or deal them, Kenny has made sure when he deals a guy he deals them near peak value. Joe Borchard was going to be a super star, so was Miguel Olivo...what happened with them. Kenny held Borch and moved others and so far he hasn't traded any one guy away that I really wish we had back (prospect wise). I appreciate that and I give him credit. He deals guys he doesn't see as long term fixtures in the organization and will hold other prospects he likes. He also found ways to get Bobby Jenks and acquired Neal Cotts when some people were pissed about giving up Joe Valentine. Kenny knows what he's doing and just because he gives up prospects doesn't make him a fool. The Braves have long dealt away certain prospects, but they tab certain one's developmental guys which they hold onto with the plan of developing 1 or 2 of them a year at the major league level. The Giants have been a sucessful organization for a long time and they have based that on typically trading away prospects (they aren't much of a developmental organization) but they have done a great job dealing prospects and getting major league talent in return that has helped there team win for the most part of the past 10 years or so.

QUOTE(Balance @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 01:15 PM) So, here's a question for you hard-core soccer fans- what's the best way for the average U.S. viewer (who, like me, is not really familiar with international soccer at all) to watch and appreciate the World Cup? I'd like to give it a chance. The US games will all be on TV as will other games. I had a blast following the World Cup last time around and I'm excited for the upcoming cup. The key will be to stay up at odd hours (since there is the time zone difference).

QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 12:39 PM) You guys think MJ will speak??? I heard somewhere, ESPN 1000 probably, that this was gonna be the biggest reunion of players from the championship run. I heard Rodman, Kerr, Wennington and Pax (obviously).... anybody else coming out?? Will Dennis Hopson be in the house?? Thanks Pipp Will Perdue is supposed to be there. He was in Orlando and the announcers mentioned that he was going to be flying into Chicago for Pippen's retirement. I'm going to make sure I check this out and take a breaking from my studying for this.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 09:05 AM) refresh my memory, who was he traded for? He was part of the trade for Jimenez I think. It may have been the one where we got that sidearm reliever from them (Scott Sullivan), but I thought it was the Jimenez deal.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:15 PM) I guess those rumors that the Jays denied Overbay for McGowan weren't true then... And I respectully disagree with Jason, I like this deal for the Brewers and I think Bush is gonna be a good one. After seeing that they were getting Jackson and Bush, plus opening up a spot for Fielder I changed my tune. I think this is a good deal for both teams. The Brewers are a well ran organization (never thought I'd say that) and this is another nice move.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:03 PM) Alrighty, let's switch up some names here. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5148464 I'm wondering what Toronto is going to do with all it's 3B/1B types -- Hinske, Koskie, Overbay... Am I missing someone? My guess is one will DH and the other will be on the way out. Koskie is an obvious starter at 3rd if he's healthy while Hilly would be the obvious DH, imo. I'd say Hinske is the odd man out and I don't know what his status is, but I doubt he has that great of trade value. I like this deal from both sides perspective now. Zach Jackson is a really solid left handed pitching prospect. Pitched for The aggies, IIRC, and is a former 1st round pick (or supplemental). The Sox were pretty high on this kid as well and drafted him out of high school. Didn't have the greatest numbers in the minors but is near MLB ready. They are getting themselves a good minor league arm, a 4th or 5th starter right now (Bush) and Gabe Gross (talented, but has never lived up to the hype). Not bad for the Brewers and still solid for the Jays cause they got themselves a good bat.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:57 PM) Is there a reason we arent protecting him? There have to be 1-3 guys on the 40 man that are less talented... The Sox were trying to sneak him through because the other guys on are more likely to be able to contribute this year (ie stick with us or another team via the Rule V so it was more necessary to protect them). I didn't like leaving Fabio off, but he's still very raw and I think there is a shot he comes back (unless the Royals hold onto the pick). If he goes to a good team then there is a good shot he comes back, imo.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:58 PM) Will the Brewers use Fielder at first and then use Shea at third? I agree, nice move by the Jays Thats my guess. I understand this move in a sense cause the Brewers wanted to open up a position for Fielder and Overbay is relatively close to breaking the bank (in terms of becoming a FA) but Hilly is a poor defensive player (especially at 3rd). He is a solid player though, but I just never liked him. Statistically Hilly and Overbay were similar and Bush was a solid young starter in the AL (nothing special).

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:54 PM) and Vinny Castilla. The fact that he pawned Castilla off on the Pads for Brian Lawrence was his only saving grace on that move. If Lawrence can pitch like he did a few years back it would be solid and financially it was a wash. But ya, everything he's done has been awful (except trading for Guillen), but he inherited a pretty solid team and Frank Robinson is a good mgr.

If Kolb goes back to two years ago's form that would be nice. I'll root for the Brewers, they got some good prospects and for the most part seem to be making some nice moves (since the Seligs got out)

Its going to be rough losing him. He's a guy I like in the sense of developing into a good lefty reliever in the future. But who knows if he's mature enough to stick with a team for the entire year. It definately helps that he's a lefty cause there are quite a few teams looking for one of them in the pen, especially one with solid stuff and a minimal contract (considering the market this year for relievers). I hope he ends up coming back, but I could easily see a team sticking him in the pen for an entire year and using him sparingly. I had no idea he was expected to be the 1st pick though.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:49 PM) Good points. Ok, from the Nats side of things, add more salary and are they going to throw him out in the outfield where he doesnt want to play? I think Bowden totally lucked out last year. He hasn't made any good moves since taking over and he's continually making moves that make me shake my head. Soriano is definately a bat (and they could use a bat) but they dealt a pretty good bat themselves and one that actually fit into there lineup (so really I see this as a wash for the Nats) unless they plan on moving Soriano. This is just a puzzling move by Bowden. Kind of like him offering up that big ass contract for Christian Guzman.

Wow, good deal for the Blue Jays, imo. Technically its a fair deal for each team, but I'm just not a Hilly fan (even though he puts up good numbers last year). However Lyle is cheaper and >>> than Hilly and I don't get why the Brewcrew would be interested in this move. Bush will be a starter for them, but I don't think he has middle to front of the rotation stuff (just my 2 cents). I like this deal from the Jays perspective. They get some pop in the lineup and give up a guy that was coming off a career year (Hilly) and a solid young pitcher.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:46 PM) You're right with the money factor but still, move Alf for pitching..I mean cmon now. The Rangers need pitching bad and they just wasted their major chip on Wilkerson and this is nothing against Wilk cause I actually think he's a fine hitter. If the Rangers keep Wilkerson and don't get pitching, I agree with you, they'd have been better suited straight dealing Soriano for a pitcher. However, if they are thinking that they could use the extra money on a FA pitcher and than get similar value via trade for Wilkerson for another pitcher, they may be able to get 2 quality pitchers in essence for Soriano. If they do that, bingo. However if they cut payroll and get a mediocre pitcher and keep Wilkerson than I'd call it a failure on there part. The Rangers need to find 1 good pitcher and preferablye 1 good and one solid pitcher.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:44 PM) I think he's going to put up better numbers than his 2004 season, which was pretty damn good. I'd guess something like .270/.390/.525 in that ballpark... Plus he should see his power numbers increase back to two years ago's numbers. If he stays in Texas.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:42 PM) Agreed, i really like it because wilkerson should be raking next season. I'm more confused as to why the Nats made this deal. I also think the Rangers would have been better suited dealing him for pitching. Hell, even if they had gotten Odalis Perez and a good prospect for Soriano (which I think would have been possible). But the Rangers got a good hitter that can play any OF position and thats financially cheaper than Soriano. This gives them a chip in Wilkerson (if they want to move him) to get a pitcher and they have freed up money to sign a pitcher. Right now I'm leaning towards the Rangers and A's being the top dogs in the west.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 08:39 PM) The only way this deal makes sense to me is if the Nats are going to use Soriano for pitching. Ditto with the Rangers and Wilk but ya they didn't need to be flopped for that to happen. This trade definitely confuses the hell out of me. The Rangers freed up some cash (actually my guess is that it was a considerable amount of cash) so I kind of see the reasoning for them (plus Wilkerson can play any OF position and DH and is a good hitter). He's not Soriano good, but he is a solid hitter. The problem is they seem stacked in the OF and they need pitching. They must figure now they have some financial flexibility (to sign a starter...maybe Washburn) and can than use a cheaper guy like Wilkerson to land them another starter? In terms of Washington this puzzles me cause I don't have a clue where Soriano would play. Soriano refuses to play OF and Vidro is a staple at 2nd (unless they are going to move him). The Nats could use the extra bat, maybe they plan on moving him to 3rd or something?

Angels would be glad to move Cabrerra since they plan on using Brandon Wood at SS in two years. In fact they are willing to offer him in the 3 team deal with the BoSox and Dbacks (thats been proposed). The Dbacks/BoSox want Kochman, Brandon Wood and Scott Shields. The Angels have said they will not deal Wood and they don't appear willing to move Shields. Kochman and Cabrerra would be what they'd offer (and they keep trying to pass off Finley). I got to be honest, the Angels are doing nothing that makes sense right now. They just announced that they won't offer Bengie Molina arbitration. Jose Molina is a bum and Jeff Mathis isn't ready. I don't know why they wouldn't have offered arbitration. At least they'd still be able to get a draft pick and worse case they get one more year of Molina (which is a good thing if you ask me). The market for catchers is quite low right now. It looks like Hernandez and Molina will be out there for a while.

This doesn't really make much sense to me. This is obviously a straight payroll dump by the Rangers. Wilkerson is a darn good hitter, but Soriano is better and it doesn't sound like they are getting anything else. The question is, where is Soriano going to play since the Nats have Vidro.

5.2 and I can type 120 words a minute or so. I'm not used to typing the abc's, lol.