Chisoxfn

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) I GUARANTEE that Tampa would get a better deal from another team. The only thing I can think of is if Tampa doesn't get a #1 pitching prospect from someone else. Tracey is more of a #2 type pitching prospect (like a B prospect...ie has potential but isn't really loved by some). Fields definately is more an A type prospect, but he has potential flaws and doesn't have the greatest minor league track record (statistically speaking, but has tools). The only question is could a 3rd team enter this (say a team looking for Huff, maybe the Dodgers??) who offer up a good pitching prospect and get something like Huff and Brian Anderson or a good outfielder from the Sox). The Sox spin Anderson for the pitching prospect and than give up something like Tracey, Fields and another pitching prospect or even a guy like Marte. Heck, couldn't Marte go to a 3rd team along with something for a pretty good pitching prospect. I could see a lot of ways for the Sox to get that pitching prospect, especially since you know the Drays are trying to move Lugo/Huff and many teams are interested in them as well.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:28 PM) Pods Crawford Dye Thome Kong Iguchi Pierzynski Uribe Crede That lineup would be SO solid. I'd flop Dye and Kong.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:25 PM) You're nuts if you think that Tampa won't require the trade partner to include a big time pitcher/pitching prospect in the deal. Would Ray Liotta and Sean Tracey combined work, plus Josh Fields

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:24 PM) How much would you give to hear what is said in the suite of the Sox at the winter meetings. Im sure some of the names that come up would leave us shocked. God that would be fun.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:17 PM) No knock against Owens, but just looking at it from the perspective of how excited we are for Owens who is AA at 24, while Crawford has been great in the MLB the last 4 years at 24. Check that, how excited some of you are for Owens. I'm much more excited for Brian Anderson and Chris Young. Owens is a really good athlete though, but he's going to have to really hone his baseball skills if he's going to turn into a good player. He needs to improve defensively and work very hard at his baserunning (and increasing his stolen base numbers while not getting thrown out often), plus as a leadoff type hitter he'll have to make sure he can cut down his k's and draw more walks.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:10 PM) Here's a hilarious example of how the Cubs stupidly overpaid Neifi Perez: Keep in mind that both Neifi Perez and Deivi Cruz play the same positions (SS, 2B, and 3B). Neifi Perez is 32 years old while Deivi Cruz is 33 years old. Neifi Perez's career stats: .270 AVG .301 OBP .380 SLG .681 OPS Deivi Cruz's career stats: .269 AVG .293 OBP .388 SLG .682 OPS Neifi is superior defensively though (I think he won a gold glove in Colorado, or at least I thought he did) and had himself a pretty solid year with the Cubs. Deivi Cruz has kind of resurfaced. I really don't think the Cubs did anything wrong with that contract for Neiffi. He played quite solid for them last year. Although his OBP was downright disgusting.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:15 PM) Isn't Jerry Owens 24? Just mind boggling how Crawford is 24 and the guy is an established lead off hitter. Ya, but Owens was injured and of course played in college. Hell just think of how good Arod was at 24.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:12 PM) But we have Micah Schurestein (sp?,) I am semi-serious and partially being sarcastic. I actually think he may have a decent future. I'm one of the few that likes Micah more than Fields so I consider it a win to move Fields because it opens up a spot in AA for Micah. As of now it looks like either Fields gets rushed to AAA (cause I don't think he's ready) or Micah stays a while longer in WS (until Fields gets promoted) cause I dont' see both in Bham. Fields is a former 1st rounder and has a high upside, but he's yet to do enough to cement a really high trade value. Although there isn't much doubt to his potential and ability. Tracey has as good of an arm as any righty in our system (although he's older than most prospects, he's still what I'd consider an average pitching prospect with an above average arm). Rogo is more of an organizational guy but I could see a team liking him because he's near major league ready (its a good secondary piece, but I don't know if that main piece is in there).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:09 PM) O'boy, this is going to be a 25 page thread, I can see it now. I just cant see a deal centered around Fields is going to get the job done, not after what they were asking for Huff, but I guess anything can happen. Fields,Tracy, and maybe Rogo for Crawford? Please? That would be nice. I'm guessing the Drays would want pitching. Hell, I'm not all that familiar with there needs. They obviously plan on using Baldelli in center and I'm assuming Gaithright and Crawford will be moved. They have Delmon Young to play one of the OF spots and I know they have a younger OF that played well for them last year (Johnny Ghomes or something). So would they even have interest in an OF prospect or are they moving Crawford because his contract is due to pay him more money than they want to invest? Obviously Tracey would be a fit and they really don't have any 3rd base prospects (unless they decide to move Upton there and I don't see that happening). Lugo will be gone during the offseason as will Huff (so I can definately see the interest in Fields). Hell, I even see the interest in Rogo potentially. I just don't know if that would be enough, I'd think they'd want one upper echelon prospect. We can't really offer them much at catching (our talent is at lower levels in Francisco and Lucy) and middle infield wise we are weak (plus they have BJ, unless of course they want Willie). We are OF strong, still have some good pitching prospects, and than there is Fields. If we could make that deal I'd do it, although our system would be pretty thin, I'd have zero problem dealing prospects for a 24 year old outfielder that is already good and is getting better ever year.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:04 PM) That's fine, but they're not asking for Tracey. McCarthy is their request. I doubt that "or" exists in trade negotiations. Too bad we don't live on the East Coast, where Fields could be boasted as the next great 3B of our generation. Only needless hype would convince teams to include him as a major part of any trade. I don't know if they'd even have interest in Brian Anderson, but I'd think Brian Anderson, Josh Fields and Sean Tracey would be a pretty darn strong package. Those are 3 guys that I believe will be major leaguers and solid ones at that. If that package wouldn't get it done, I don't know what would (I don't know if the Sox would do that,and the only question I'd have is whether they would be intersted in an OF prospect like Anderson).

Crawford will be 24 at the start of the season and will be entering his 4th full MLB season. His avg has went up every single year, although his K's and BB's have hovered around the same clip. He is a great basestealer (2 seasons with 50 plus steals and stole 46 last year while being caught just 8 times). Not only that but he has some pop (.800 OPS last year) and has seen his HR total climb every year in the big (15 triples last year too, ridiculous, he had 19 the previous year). His doubles total has also continually climbed. After looking more and more at this, Carl Crawford way >>> Juan Pierre. The one thing you could gripe about Crawford is the fact that he posted a .331 OBP the past two years, but I'd like to think that could improve with maturity. I have no idea what type of defensive player he is, but I nkow I've seen him make some good plays (But I don't know if he gets good jumps or anything, I assume he's not great cause if he got good jumps he could probably play CF). Put me on the Crawford bandwagon. If were going to make a deal I'd be more than willing to move Brian Anderson and Josh Fields for Carl Crawford. In fact I'd throw in one of our pitching prospects if thats what it took. He's younger, cheaper and in my opinion a better player than Pierre. Plus there isn't the park adjustment. I think he'd be a really nice fit in the 2 hole. I can definately see him turning into a ..320 AVG, .350-.360 OBP, 20 HR, .850 OPS, 50 Steals type of player. I am dreaming about the possibility of this. Please Kenny, pretty please.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:56 PM) I would sooner trade Brian Anderson for Pierre than Chris Young, not that I'd want to trade either of them for Pierre. I wouldn't deal Young for him, and I'd be hesitant to deal Anderson for him but if thats what Ozzie wants I'd have to live with it and hope they are right. Personally I'm happy standing pat and finding a platoon guy and maybe trying to find another good reliever.

QUOTE(That funky motion @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:55 PM) Saw this on MLB trade rumors. Carl Crawford On The Block? A source close to the Devil Rays' scouting department filled me in recently on their outfielder extravaganza. It's well known Joey Gathright is on the block. If you're looking for a scrappy player with no power who runs real fast, Gathright is your man. It's unknown whether Gathright can make his on-base skills shown at Triple A Durham translate to the big leagues, but some team besides the Rays will find out soon enough. I'm not yet able to narrow down the list of his suitors to a single digit number. Infinitely more interesting than Gathright is the possibility (albeit slim) that Carl Crawford could be dealt. Crawford was "a little shocked" by Rocco Baldelli's deal, and rightfully so. After all, where was Baldelli while Crawford was busy being the 10th best LF in the game in '05? 2006 could be the year Crawford busts out and hits 20 HR. According to my source, the Angels are hot on the trail of Baldelli, Gathright, and Crawford. The Rays are quite enamored with 22 year-old righthander Ervin Santana. Santana had a solid rookie season in '05, winning 12 games for the Angels. Another team in the running for Crawford is the White Sox. They're not entirely sold on Brian Anderson in center field for a defending World Champion, and the Devil Rays are asking for Brandon McCarthy and/or Josh Fields. McCarthy pitched with a vengeance in September and October of 2005, tossing 43 innings of 1.69 ERA ball. He led the Minor Leagues in strikeouts in 2004. Third baseman Josh Fields is in the Sox's top ten prospect list for sure. However, he was just OK at Double A Birmingham in '05, hitting .252/.341/.409 in 477 at-bats. Fields is a hard worker, but still needs plenty of seasoning in the minors. Someone pinch me, I'd deal Fields and a guy like Tracey for Crawford in a heartbeat. Fields is talented, but he's far from a sure thing and Crawford is a pretty talented individual who would fit into Ozzie's style (plus I think he has room to grow). Whats Crawford contract like and when does he become eligible for FA?

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:52 PM) It's not just the park. It's the fact that he was in the weakest division in baseball (one of the weakest I can remember), and his numbers weren't that great. The AL Central is just a little better than the NL West, I'd have to say. He's getting older, too. And I think Clemens' success had a lot to do with the NL, too. He'd still be good in the AL, but he didn't magically get better when he left the AL. Oh ya, cause Clemens wasn't pitching in a total hitters park? What Clemens did was downright amazing last year. The guy pitched his ass off, there is nothing you can do but tip your cap. Why not give the man the credit he's deserved. I laugh at how you guys think guys like Clemens would have been mediocre if he were in the AL last year. Let me guess, so would Chris Carpenter. Hell, I didn't see Curt Schilling's ERA skyrocket when he went from the NL to AL (from the Dbacks to the RedSox) and not only did he go to the AL, but he went to pitch in Boston (a hitters park).

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:37 PM) He had a 3 ERA in the worst division in baseball, in a gigantic pitcher's park, and now he's moving to the AL. I expect his ERA to be roughly 4. Man a lot of you people seem to really think the Al is that much tougher than the NL. It doens't have much of an effect at all on really good pitchers. I could see park factor, but its the fact that this guy is the 2nd best closer of all time (behind Mariano) that I have no reason to think he can't pitch sucessfully (as long as the stuff is there). I laugh at everyone that thinks someone like Dontrell would see his ERA jump a point if he were to leave Florida or that Carpenter or Clemens wouldn't have kicked butt in the AL. Sure there are different factors and in general the AL is a tougher league to pitch in because of the DH, but at the same time, its going to effect mediocre to poor pitchers a lot more than front line guys.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:30 PM) You nail it here, and as for the money ... I haven't received the final budget figure for the 2006 White Sox, has anyone else? They will stretch the budget as necessary in order to get players they want. That said, I think the Dodgers and Giants are both very attractive to Mueller. Plus Mueller always seemed to like his days with the Giants (I think thats where the Cubs got him from...for Worrel IIRC).

If they somehow landed Billingsley and Guzman plus Bradley than the A's would be totally heisting the Dodgers. That said the Dodgers are in win now mode and they have a payroll to the point where they can afford to trade prospects (evne though they are supposedly going to be lowering there payroll into the low to mid 80's. If they get Zito, I'd look for them to deal Odalis Perez pretty quickly to free up some payroll cause Perez isn't going to stick around.

QUOTE(MurcieOne @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:29 PM) I think Paxon likes his starting backcourt the way it is, ditto with Skiles... i think ur gonna see Ben get traded, he's really not a typical skiles player... i love ben, but Hammerhead is right, he's hurt the team at times this year. I think Ben Gordon and Tim Thomas could get the Bulls something pretty damn good. I still would love to put together a package to get KG including those two players and than some. I just don't know whose available via trade. I'd love a good center, but I don't know of any on the block.

Sammy doesn't mention that these are independent league teams and the Japan league Although Minaya is interested. He was the scout that originally signed/recommended Sosa to the Rangers.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:18 PM) Just based on last year, I have trouble saying either one is better. Hoffman: 43 saves, ERA = 2.97, WHIP = 1.11, BAA = .235 (in the NL) Wickman: 45 Saves, ERA = 2.47, WHIP = 1.26, BAA = 2.47 (AL) Hoffman had better numbers other than ERA, but that was also in the NL. Wickman did give up 9 home runs to Hoffman's 3 (How many of those were Dye and Konerko?) My theory was simply because I think career wise Hoffman has always been great, Wickman has been good and really seemed to revamp his career last year. Now financially I'm not saying its a good move, but next year they should stay lateral. Honestly I think I like Hoffman's chances of holding up and repeating last years numbers more than Wickmans chances. Wickman hasn't exactly been a model of health either. In 2004 he had an ERA over 4 (in just 30 games) and he missed all of 03 (well pretty much, he was just in the minors). Hoffman on the other hand since 1996, Hoffman has had just 1 season with under 60 appearances and his highest ERA was 3.43 during that same span. He is a yr older though, but I'd say Hoffman has the greater shot of holding up next year and in years beyond. I think 2 years would have been wiser. But money isn't going to effect them next year and I think its a good move for next year (hell if he pitches good next year they could always move him and the remaining two years to some other team).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:03 PM) Please Tribe, give 38 year old Trevor Hoffman a 3 year deal. Thats a lot of years to give him, but Hoffman is still one of the best closers in the biz. I don't know if his hip (I think he has a bad hip, but I may be confusing him with Percy who I know has a bad hip) but he could definately wear down (plus he'll be 41 for cripe sake). That said I think he's an upgrade over Bob Wickman.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 12:51 AM) The Reds should trade for and extend Marquis. They could use a GB pitcher in that park That makes way too much sense for the Reds.

Going to merge this with the Juan Pierre thread.

The Dodgers would be the one team that would be able to offer him a starting job at his normal position and rumor is the Dodgers are interested in him.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 05:04 PM) There is NO WAY its just Bradley for Zito, no way. The Dodgers have some stud prospects. I don't think Joel Guzman would fit there (since they have Chavez locked up) but I would definately be thinking that Beane would be going after some of the Dodgers top prospects (all of which were in AA last year or well the vast majority were). Bradley and two top prospects would be a good move by the A's, imo, and there isn't a system I'd rather be getting a prospect from (I think in terms of high ceiling prospects they rank amongst the best in the biz right now).