Chisoxfn

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) Thome is a better defensive 1B than Konerko. People forget that Thome, when healthy is good with the glove. Umm...Konerko is one of the better 1st baseman in the biz and is much better than Thome with the glove. If Konerko had a little more range I'd probably say he's a gold glover. In the AL, Tex and Erstad (who should have won the gold glove) are the two that are hands down better (I can't even say it with Tex, but I'm basing it on him winning the gold glove and I don't really think thats the right thing for me to do).

QUOTE(rangercal @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:44 PM) at this point IMO Frank contract with incentives > 14 m Konerko Totally disagree. Plus Konerko isn't getting 14 million. Regardless relying on Frank Thomas to do anything in 06 (aside from getting hurt again) is a no no.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 01:08 PM) It's possible he could be back if the Sox don't sign Konerko. Imo there is maybe a .1% chance of that happening. His days are done in Chicago.

QUOTE(phillychuck @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:38 PM) We'd love to hear what you WSox fans have to say about Rowand, Gonzalez, and Haigwood over at http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewforum.php?f=1 . From our perspective, we hate losing probably the classiest guy in baseball and a prototypical LH power bat, but either he or Howard had to be traded, and the salary issue made Thome the expendable one. Something you guys may not have heard is that Thome's rehab regimen has been highly successful--reportedly, he's in the best shape he's been in since his mid-20s. Also, his elbow injury was related to throwing, something he may not have to do much in the AL. We hope he hits 50 HRs for you and we see you in the series. Is Rowand more likely to perform at his 2004 levels, or his 2005 ones? Did he hit many more Groundballs because Ozzie wanted him to, or was it his own idea, or simply a swing mechanics issue? We understand pretty much everyone likes Gonzalez, but Haigwood's numbers are unreal, and he's closer to the majors--is he the real thing? Congrats on a well deserved World Series win. Hey Chuck Thanks for the invite. Let me tell you, Haigwood is the best of the two prospects you get. He doesn't have the hype/love from Baseball America but he's the better pitcher. Thats not a knock on Gio because Gio has good to great stuff but a very slender build. I think a lot of scouts question his durability, plus whenever your in A ball or lower you still got a while so a lot of things can happen. Haigwood has turned it on and really had a tremendous year in Bham (a pitchers park) from his mid-season promotion. The guy has a plus changeup and can locate his other pitches in the zone. He gets good downward action and knows how to show hitters different levels and keep them off balance. Definately not a pure stuff guy, but his changeup is a near plus pitch. Very under-rated prospect you got. I think in terms of Aaron you'll see something closer to 05 as opposed to 04. That said Aaron has more power than he showed this year, but the beautiful thing about Aaron is his personality and defense. He is one of the 5 best defensive centerfielders in the game and knows nothing but 150%. He has problems recognizing breaking balls and really seemed to have problems turning on the ball this year. He usually produces a good number of Xtra base hits and is what I'd deem a smart player. I think he could do something like .275-.285 and 20. Will never be a high OBP guy (unless he's totally raking). That said if you guys get the Aaron of 04, you have yourselves a steal of a trade.

QUOTE(lemon44 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:30 PM) If we don't re-sign Konerko let's trade for Glaus. If we don't resign Konerko, than I still think Giles at the right price (and for 3 years) makes a lot of sense. He could slide into CF if need be and the Sox can than maybe find a platoon type bat for 1st base (even a guy like Mueller). If the Sox had Giles and Thome in the middle I have zero problem with Mueller playing 1st.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) Can they pry Freel away from the Reds, he's the kind of guy Ozzie likes. I saw Freel, but he has some mega off the field issues and from what I heard they are a lot worse than whats been reported in the media. I think he's a guy that would fit, but also a guy that the Sox will stay away from.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:48 PM) Some guy named Kong I agree with you on that. They will sign Konerko by the end of the winter meetings. I'm leaning towards it being a 4yr 52 mill deal with a 5th year option that would be right around the same amount.

QUOTE(DukeNukeEm @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:35 PM) Joey Gathwright? The Drays aren't going to trade a speedy outfielder, and a cheap one at that, that they have the rights to for a while.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:36 PM) rowand was a class act from day one.... and he was a class act on the way out: "B.A. is a good player. He's going to be fine," said Rowand of Anderson. "He can hit. He plays defense. He plays the game the right way. Chicago fans and the White Sox are going to be happy to have him." I hope Aaron can come back to Chicago one day later on in his career.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:40 PM) I just remember the entire media saying that we overpaid. Instead, Olivo is not even on the Mariners anymore, Reed looks like the weakest hitting center fielder in baseball, and Michael Morse got busted for using steroids. I said it was a fair deal. I think on the most part Kenny makes fair deals. I could see this deal working out for both teams. I could also see it busting up for both teams (Thome is hurt and is done, than the Sox are busts cause they give up at least one sure thing in Aaron). Thome hits 40 Hr's 3 straight years and the Sox kill in this deal (especially if none of the prospects develop). However the most likely scenario is both get what they wanted.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) Cheat summed up my feelings (that I couldn't put down in words) in his blog entry at SouthSideSox: I don't mind giving up Haigwood. He seems like a nice prospect, but you're going to have to give up more than Aaron Rowand to get Jim Thome. That's fine... But Gio too? Eventually we're going to need another league minimum, cheap option for our starters. Right now, the rotation is on the cusp of being really expensive, with Contreras and Garland due big raises in the coming years. I'll digress, and say I'm going a bit overboard on my Gio love, but losing him hurts. A lot. I'd say it hurts more to lose Gonzalez than it does Rowand. BTW -- I'm sort of hoping they don't resign Konerko, but go after someone else (Giles. Giles. Giles.). Konerko and Thome seem to have the same sort of baseball skills, with the edge going to a healthy Thome. I just don't think Konerko will be worth his contract. Thome, I can deal with -- $7 million a year, that's a bargain. Any ill feelings I have towards Kenny would be immediately washed away by signing Brian Giles. I'll state it right now. Of the 2 minor leaguers the one I miss more and that we may regret the most is Haigwood, not Gio. In fact there is a shot Gio never pitches in the majors (due to injuries) while I can't see Haigwood not being a 5th starter at worse). Just my 2 cents and as usual I think these were guys Kenny probably didn't want to give up but had to. At the same time I'm sure these were guys Kenny didn't see the upside in as opposed to others. Of course Lummy had no trade value due to injuries and Liotta is still raw and doesn't have the name that Gio has. I'm still not that concerned. The odds of them both becoming good major league starters are low. If Thome hits 40 hr's next year and the Sox repeat, its all worth it. Heck if Thome plays well for the next 3 seasons and is healthy its all worth it. I don't think as highly of Gio as most though. The thing that stings to me is that the Sox have very little depth in terms of pitching prospects and they may have dealt there most ML ready one (not named McCarthy) when they traded Haigwood. Stuff wise I still feel Tracey has the best arm in the minors (right handed) but I don't know if he'll ever develop the control and the necessary secondary pitches to be a great starter. However, I think worse case he could slide and fit nicely in the pen (total rubber arm) and he gets great downward action on the ball.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:44 PM) No. PTBNLs can even be major leaguers if they are in different leagues. Also, I don't think the Sox can add Castro because their roster only contained 39 at the deadline. I can't imagine baseball would allow them to add Castro after the deadline (even though a spot was open at the deadline) now that they have made a trade. Being that was the case, I'd agree. I thought it had to deal with being in a different league (and that you were able to trade major leaguers or PTBNL as long as they were there) but wasn't always sure. Thanks for explaining that to me. I still doubt anyone would grab Castro and keep him on their roster the entire season.

If Thome is healthy for the next 3 seasons this is a fabulous deal. If he isn't, obviously it brings problems. One thing for certain Thome fills a serious need when healthy and the move makes total sense. Prospects are prospects and in this case they were spun for a player who can make a huge impact and be a big part of a potential repeat.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:18 PM) That brings up another interesting point. The 40 man roster is now at 38 players for the Sox. I wonder if we have a rule 5 pitcher in mind? I assume the Sox would be able to move Fabio onto the 40 and protect him now? Sox won't go after anyone in the Rule V though. It would make no sense. A contending team isn't going to keep someone on the roster for the entire season. Of course they would have the option of eventually trading for the player, but I still find that very unrealistic.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:11 PM) It's Haigwood and Gio, with Haigwood being the PTBNL. Haigwood is on the 40 man roster. Tossing him into the trade right away means that Philly would have less flexibility with the upcoming Rule 5 draft. Once that mess is all straigtened out, Haigwood/Gio will be made official. Are you sure? I was thinking 40 man roster guys aren't allowed to be PTBNL, but thats usually debatable and I may be entirely wrong. Especially since he's going to a different league.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:55 PM) Yes, agree with this. Here's how I think the dominoes will fall: They deal Marte + something else cheap to Florida for Juan Pierre. That something else cheap could be a prospect like Borchard plus another more desireable prospect ... or it could be Marte and a higher ceiling guy like Anderson, with possibly something else coming back to the White Sox. Either way the key pieces are Marte and Pierre. KW then goes out and finds a lefty reliever, they patch in another utility guy or even stay with Harris and you're all done. I'm with you on this. Anderson will get a lot of Ab's (375-450), but as the 4th outfielder and he'll be ready to replace one of the speedsters in 07 (whether its Pierre who becomes a FA or Pods). The key is I want the Sox to find a good reliever to replace Marte (the pen was huge for the Sox last year and was one of the key reasons they did what they did). I can also see quite a few guys in that Sox pen having worse years than 05 (which definately means I want another guy or two in there). I can't see giving up much more than Marte for Pierre though (considering Juan's salary).

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:33 PM) There's a 0 percent chance Pods plays center this year. Whether its Pierre or Anderson, both are better Cfers.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) $8.75 Boy was I off. Well I think the overall numbers I gave were fairly accurate (although it was a ballpark figure off the top of my head).

Aaron...the way you played the game made me smile. I will always root for you and I thank you for all that you did on the Southside of Chicago. May you one day come back to Chicago, but regardless, may the rest of your career be great and hopefully you'll grab a gold glove away from Andruw Jones in the next couple years. Thanks for all the memories. You will always be one of my favorite players to watch. You hustled and fought and never gave up.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:40 PM) Yours is an excellent point. You're right, it's sometimes very good with a young player to just tell him "here's what you do in this AB". It's one hell of a lot of pressure though, especially with this teams huge expectations. Iguchi was somewhat of a different case ... much more experienced and likely more fundamentally sound. Here is a name that might fit into the mix somehow, some way ... Ryan Freel. He is arbitration eligible with the Reds and might be available. Speed, can handle the bat, can play multiple positions. He might be an interesting player. I still think all signs point to Juan Pierre though. I just don't think Anderson handles the bat that well and I could really see him failing. The 2 hole is a key spot in Ozzie's lineup (especially with what he asks him to do) and I think your risking a lot not having a veteran who can handle the bat in that spot. This is the only reason why I don't think Anderson will be the starter. If Guchi was going to stay in the 2 hole than I could easily see Anderson being named the starter.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) Very talented but one of the biggest jerks in the game. I don't think he's the kind of guy KW and Ozzie want for the team. All of this being said I agree that we should just stick with BA. I believe KWand Ozzie think it is time to get him MLB playing time. I tend to agree, but he could be had for little (in the sense of prospects).

I just want to point out. The reports say the Phils are going to pick up 22 million of the contract, which means the Sox would be paying an avg of just over 7 mill (for 3 years). If you figure in the 3.25 Aaron was slated to make the deal ends up meaning the Sox would see there payroll increase 3.75-3.8 million over last years. This means if the Sox give Konerko 3 million more (he made good money this year IIRC, 10 mill or so) you'd have roughly a 7 million increase in those two players. Obviously other guys are due raises, but thats not even figuring in the loss of Everett and Thomas which would easily wash out Konerko's raise and Thome's net (minus Arows salary). Which means Garland and maybe a few others get raises (pushing you to 6-8 million). This means the Sox (after this trade) still have anywhere from 7-12 million (depending on what you think payroll will be 85 or 90) to make upgrades (thats if they don't deal Duque).

QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:23 PM) I was thinking Rocco Baldelli. Another guy coming off an injury on a team with a surplus at the position. KW might be able to swing a good deal with a new GM in Tampa. If were going with unprovens (and I think Rocco is over-rated, although very talented) we might as well stick with our in-house guy of Brian Anderson. Just my 2 cents. I think Anderson has more all around ability than Rocco. Good suggestion though. The main reason I don't see Anderson as the answer (this year) is because Ozzie wants a 2 hole hitter. Thats been documented and I am 99% sure that won't be Guchi (he'll slide down in the lineup replacing Aaron and do a better job, imo). Anderson obviously is not capable of being a 2 hole hitter (at least not now) so you'd have to find someone. The big sleeper I'd go with is Milton Bradley. He can handle the bat and has all the tools (not as quick as he once was) but he has boughts with laziness and is a racist that doesn't fit in the clubhouse.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) as an aside....did gio gonzalez remind anyone else of arnie munoz? thats the comparison i cant get out of my head when referring to sox minor leaguers Well Arnie long had some hype when it came to his curve. His status has long died, although he's still quite young and capable (not as a starter). Similar builds, but Gio is far superior.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) Jason ... put your thinking cap on .... Who else fits besides Pierre? Somebody with speed, can handle the bat, and can function in the #2 hole. Rafael Furcal moving to CF Darin Erstad (can't play CF really) Figgins (Angels won't deal him) Milton Bradley (Sox won't go for him...plus injury problems..plus not as fast as he used to be) Johnny Damon (probably too much money...hell of a hitter though) Vernon Wells (not a typical 2 hole hitter) Carl Crawford (I think he's over-rated) Ichiro??? Soriano (move him to CF) I still think Pierre makes the absolute most amount of sense.