Chisoxfn

I think he waited till the contract was signed to prevent injury. You can knock him for that, but I can see where its coming from. He had zero history of this and from what I remember he had bulked up weight wise. He just wasn't in the endurance shape that Skiles wanted.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 28, 2005 -> 03:39 PM) RFK is an extreme pitchers park and his numbers on the road were pretty brutal. That plus going back to the AL, I fully expect his era to be right around 5. Oakland is a pitchers park as well (stats be damned). I don't anticipate much change in the numbers as long as he's healthy. That said it seems like a lot, but compared to Eric Milton getting what he got last year (and Odalis Perez) this seems pretty on par with the market. I'd think Beane would have opted for something else, but he isn't paying him too much in the 1st two years of the deal.

QUOTE(Randar68 @ Nov 28, 2005 -> 11:18 AM) The real question is "who took the better route to home plate?"

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Nov 28, 2005 -> 07:56 AM) Someone told me they heard (yeah, yeah I know) on Comcast Sports Net that Ana. had already offered Pauly 4-5 years at 75 mil. Not true. if that had been offered it would be in one of the papers here or on the radio.

Jones last year >>> Thome ever (simply because of Jones defense to go on top of all that power). That said I like the move the Sox made. Trading for Jones last year wouldn't have been finacially smart because the Sox would have capped themselves from making the other quality signings they did.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 28, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) I missed a bunch of the thread, and didnt see the Nomar stuff till now. Obviously I want Kong back with the Sox,and I still think a deal gets done here in the next few weeks. However, Nomar as a fall back would not be the worst thing to happen. The only thing that scares me is that we are putting alot of out eggs in an injury prone basket.... Lets get Kong signed and not have to worry about plans B, C, and D. If they went with a plan B and opted with Nomar I could see them bringing in another bat as well, so they wouldn't be totally relying on them all. Hell, that would be one instance where I could see Thomas back as the plan C.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 04:11 PM) I just want to add, that on top of a Bears victory, I was in Packer land (NE Wisconsin and the UP of MI) on a hunting trip and they are disgusted at their team's suckiness and are jealous of the Bears' success. They remind me of Cubs fans. I overheard a bitter cheesehead (owner of restaurant) saying "Man, their head coaches name is Lovie...yeah, Lovie." Ha.....haha. Ummm...they aren't the Cubs. They've won some Super Bowls and were one of the better teams of the past 10-12 years.

QUOTE(MarlinFan84 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 08:08 PM) We are still trying to trade Juan Pierre, and the ChiSawx were one of the potential suitors. I have heard good things about both of these guys, and would love to have either of them. What are the chances that we could pry one of them away? Hopefully zero.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) Which means they are about the same as the other power conferences. I'm still not convinced LSU is as good as their ranking, but that team has been through a lot and has persevered. In reality, they should be undefeated right now, causing everyone to be in an uproar about the BCS. Well I still think they should have lost that ASU game to start the season.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 02:44 PM) Alabama is not that good. The past two games have exposed that. Notre Dame would kill Alabama. I really think you could make an argument for Oregon, for Notre Dame, for Ohio State and for Auburn. No matter how you slice it, there are no clear cut winners or losers in that group. Obviously those that don't like Notre Dame will bark that they don't belong. But I don't see any big differences amongst the four. I'd like to think I can be as objective as anyone in this situation. -- My ex-roommate and good friend is an Oregon grad and has had me watching Oregon games a lot over the past 5-6 years. I don't call myself a Duck fan, but I quietly hope they do well each year. -- While I have always liked Michigan in football, I am a huge Big Ten fan living in the South, so I have no problem rooting for Ohio St. except for when it directly affects Michigan. I always root for the Big Ten in bowl games. -- Growing up in Indiana, despite beng more of a Big Ten fan, I have always quietly admired Notre Dame. I consider myself a lukewarm ND fan, but have really enjoyed their resurgence under Charlie Weis this year. -- Living in Alabama, I hear about Auburn on a daily basis. I have grown to have a good level of respect for their program and enjoy watching them play. I do think they are playing very well right now, but that opening game loss to GA Tech is really killing them. So in essence I have at least a little bit of dog in the hunt for all four teams. Looking objectively, I just can't see a huge difference between any of them. I think the bigger problem (and you as well as others have mentioned it) are not the at-large bids, its the guaranteed bids to certain conference winners, like the West Virginia's of the world and possibly FSU's this year. There should be a rule that its a guarantee unless the team isn't ranked in the top 10 or unless the team has more than 2 losses (some sort of items that cancel out the opportunities of less than superior teams getting the guaranteed bid).

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 02:38 PM) Giants up 10-7 on the Seahawks with 1:07 left in the second quarter. A loss by the Hawks and the Bears will be tied with them for best record in the NFC. Edit: I forgot that the Giants would also be 8-3. So there would be a 3 way tie for the top spot. Go Giants! Carolina is also 8-3. There would be a 4way tie but if the Gmen win and the season ended today the Bears would get home field throughout.

Grossman will probably be the #2 starter next Sunday.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 02:06 PM) How one sided is the Adewale Ogunleye for Marty Booker trade looking now? An elite pass rushing end for a second rate wr. Thank god for the salary cap. Booker is better than a 2nd rate WR, imo. Problem is he hasn't had any QB in Miami the past couple years. Still a very good deal for the Bears. They needed that premiere pash rusher and when healthy Ogunleye is just that. Plus Alex Brown is a mad man of late.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:41 PM) Well how short is your leash? Does he have to stink two games in a row, three? Any more than that and we will have a new QB going into the playoffs. There is no exact definition. If he was horrid for 2 or 3 straight weeks he'd be gone and that wouldn't give much time for Grossman, but thats life. I'm not benching him because someone else looks good in practice. Not when he's gotten better each and every week and has been a part of this offense. He's not costing this team wins, he's helping them win more than some of you think because he's doing his job. Trent Dilfer didn't need to throw for 300 yards with the Ravens, he needed to limit turnovers and try to convert the key 3rd downs when needed. He did that and went to the superbowl and won it. The Ravens d was the reason it won, but it wouldn't have won if Dilfer didn't protect the football and help move the chains just enough. I'm also not even going to speak of the insane lack of depth the Bears have at WR right now. I'm looking forward to Berrian, Berlin and Currie to get some more playing time (especially Berrian) because it would open up a little more things.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:43 PM) Alright, I'm not saying you're lying, I just know what I read and heard here in Chicago. I just think people need to let it go. The Bulls won 47 games and made the playoffs last year. We have a chance to match that and maybe even win a round this year. People need to focus on that. I wasn't commenting on it. Whats done is done. I hated dealing Artest (I loved that guy), but he ain't coming back. Chandler isn't near as bad as some of you fools say he is. I just hope he's healthy because he's a key to the improvement of this team. He's got the ability to be a DOMINANT defender.

QUOTE(Palehose13 @ Nov 26, 2005 -> 05:36 PM) What is laughable is that only one person (I believe) realizes that the $22 million coming from Philadelphia is to pay Jim Thome. I think everyone knows that.

QUOTE(timotime @ Nov 26, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) dont underestimate the clutch bloop single! Don't underestimate what Timo brings to the clubhouse. Plus he is a solid defensive player whose versatile. I knock Timo's offense as much as the next guy, but when your the 25th guy sometimes there are more important things and Timo never complains and really keeps guys lose. Plus he has gotten enough big hits to warrant him getting limited playing time. That said I don't think he'll be around this next year (but he may still be).

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:36 PM) I read in multiple newspapers at the time that Brand wanted out of Chicago as soon as his rookie contract was up. The losing had become too much for him. Especially for a guy that spent his college career at Duke. I remember he was quite sad with the trade and there was some talk that even after the trade that he wanted to come back to Chicago (this was the talk out here in LA) when he became a FA. The Bulls were just never in a position to get him back and the Clips are finally good.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:32 PM) Agreed. I know we're not the 01 Rams or last years Colts. I'm just worried about when Orton actually has to go out there and make some things happen. I especially worry about this in the playoffs. Like I said. i'm praying Orton proves me wrong. The White Sox stuffed a s*** load of crow down my throat. I can definitely go for some more. The Bears aren't a whole lot different than last years Steelers. Just watch the Steelers with Big Ben last year. He wasn't asked to do much anything, the Steelers handed the heck out of the ball and played strong defense. Ben made some plays but not too many (he didn't make mistakes and was smart enough to continue to win). When Ben was asked to put the team on his back he couldn't (no rookie can). Ben has improved this year but just wait a year or two longer and than he's the type of guy that can really go out and win games for you. This year he's been hurt but he's getting closer to that point already. This years Bears have a superior defense to last years Steelers (they had a damn good one too) but the Steelers had a lot more offensive weapons last year than the Bears do this year (RB's is similar, but the WR's the Steelers had with Plaxico, Hines, Randle El was a big advantage). Sure it may bite us in the playoffs, but Orton is developing and improving each week and is doing an amazing job for a rookie. He has a strong arm and improving footwork (once it gets better and he sees more defenses and improves his route reading and familiarity, plus when the Bears WR's develop a bit more, you'll see him improve and turn into a good NFL QB). I don't see why people think he sucks. The Bears are developing a QB and winning with him and he's doing whats asked of him. Next year you'll probably see the Bears call a little more open game. You'll never see a wide-open game though, not with this defense. It would be totally foolish to do that. The defense is our strenght so your offensive play calls need to be conservative enough to make sure you give your defense rest and win the field position battle. When you do that you allow your defense to tee off on the opponents. Obviously the best thing would be long scoring drives but look at it this way, the Bears have put together some real long offensive scoring drives this year. They will put together more and the offense will continue to improve. The Bears offense looked solid enough today against the 3rd ranked defense in the league. Last week was about the best the offense had looked all season against one of the best defenses in the league (Carolina). The point is this is a team thats getting better each week and Orton is a part of this team.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:24 PM) Rex has been hit hard by the injury bug. All i'm saying that is if Rex comes out and looks really good in practice and impresses the coaching staff, you might have to put him in. But I agree with the thinking that as long as we're winning, Orton should be the guy. No, you don't. Orton has made the plays he's asked to. Now if Orton starts stinking, than fine by me. I don't expect that to happen.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:21 PM) Jason, I understand everything you're saying. The offense is extremely conservative, and it has to be. We can afford to be conservative due to the fact we have the best defense the NFL has seen since the 2000 Ravens. All I'm saying is that at some point, Orton is gonna have to go out there and win a game. Lets assume Bryant makes that fg, then the pressure goes straight to the offense. You can't be as conservative in a tie game or if you're behind. Your qb has to make some plays. I personally don't think Orton can do that. I would love to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen much to suggest he can actually go out there and "win" a game. Did Orton not make all the passes necessary two or three weeks ago when he led the Bears into field goal range to set up the game winning field goal? In fact, I think he's right around the top rated QB in the final 2 minutes of each halves. Of course he's the worse rated starter in the other 56 minutes. Point is, we aren't going to win games if were putting the ball in the arms of Orton needing score 30 points. If that happens we have failed as a team. Thats like asking the Sox to score 10 runs a game last year because we didn't have the type of offense that can do that. Your asked to win your style of games. We won't win a shootout, but thats not our style.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:04 PM) People need to get over the Brand/Chandler trade. We were terrible when we had Brand. He wanted out of Chicago the first chance he got anyway. How many times have the Clippers made the playoffs with Brand? Don't get me wrong, I like Brand. But we didn't trade Shaq, Duncan or KG. People act like Tyson has been a bum. As shown earlier, he's still in the top 10 or so in boards. Tyson will NEVER be a great offensive player. He's got horrible hands, foot work, ect. His stregnths are boards, blocked shots and defense. As long as he's doing those things, he's fine. Brand did not want out of Chicago.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 03:57 AM) Or he is one of the best big man defenders in league. Top 10-15 defender in the league and has been for years now. Especially this year. The guy is in some kind of shape.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:09 PM) All this is fine as well as long as the D continues to do it's thing. The minute Orton is asked to actually win a game for us, we're in trouble. Point is, I don't see the Bears wanting that. They are trying to protect the young QB and aren't asking him to drop back 35 times. They aren't asking him to throw 25-30 yard slants all game long. They are asking him to make good decisions on 2nd (ocassionally) and more importantly on 3rd and 5 or short. He's thrown some damn good slants and when he does drop back and throw the ball he's made good decisions and found the open guy. I saw him float Gage on the 1st drive of the game, that was about the only ball I saw floated the entire day. The more the game went on the more accurate he was and to close out the half he was very accurate and made all the good sideline throws. Point is, when he's stepping back and throwing he's making the plays and most importantly he's not making mistakes. The Bears aren't putting him in a position to throw 30 times and go for 250 or 300 yards. Thats not what this offense is trying to do and you can't say Orton sucks because they do that. Its a freaking brilliant tactic by Turner and the offense to protect him and run the ball, which rests the defense and keeps the offense very balanced. If you guys start seeing Orton drop back and drop back and drop back and just constantly make poor reads or throw the ball all over the place I'd see the case in point. But can you show me a bunch of plays each week that he missed? I don't think so. Especially these past two weeks. Why assume Grossman would do anymore, I don't see the Bears missing big plays. They don't go for many of them, but Orton is hitting his guys.

QUOTE(Tmar28 @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 01:08 PM) 108 yarder was total luck. not even funny how much luck that was. could also throw in the fumbled punt by SF. you could even say any of peterson's runs he has had in any game have been luck. against the saints, saints fumble on the bears 15. thats mostly luck, a little skill though. against panthers, their best linebacker morgan got injured, could easily say that was some big help for the bears. that missed field goal by bryant is right at the top of the list of lucky breaks the bears have gotten. Umm....the field goal wasn't luck, they did the blocking and made the return. That game wouldn't have even been close if the coniditions were normal anyway. How are Peterson's runs luck? Are you a freaking idiot? He finds holes and gets rolling. The Panthers got clocked with or without Morgan they got clocked. Great defenses make plays and when you get the pass rush the Bears do your going to force turnovers. In fact there were a few times today that the Bucs narrowly escaped Turnovers. I saw Simms float a few balls into the middle of the field and he was just lucky the Bears weren't in the right position a few times.