Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) Without looking at the numbers, I'm almost certain the Sox cannot afford both Pierre and Konerko. They could.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 05:19 PM) Just like RJ was gonna be in a Sox uni? All things equal I'd much rather have Paulie at first. He's gotten so much better. Hey I'm willing to go out on a limb. I've been right quite often as well.

Get to see my 1st Hawks game in person in a few years on Sunday. They will be playing an awfully crappy Ducks team.

Merging

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) I can asee maybe adding them since they did spend at least a year in the Sox minor league system (though I maintain they did rush Garland up). I don't want to beat up Kenny because, afterall, he did bring a World Series to Chicago. But I will say that it will be a lot easier for any team to win if they can deveop as much good pitching as possible. So far, under the KW regime, it's been just Brandon McCarthy. It's been 5 drafts. I hope the Sox can figure out hte minor league pitching dilemma soon. A team can never have too much pitching. Bob Cotts should most definately count as should Bobby Jenks. We went out and got Jenks and had the guts to move him to the pen. The risk paid off for us. Kenny has done a solid job. He has done a better job dealing guys that haven't panned out (as of yet) for guys that have some value. I'll give him credit, most every minor leaguer that was sent hasn't panned out. The only one I really cringed about giving up (Aside from Reed and that was well worth it) was dealing Josh Rupe in the 1st Everett deal. But Rupe is far from a sure thing. He's a solid starting pitching prospect.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 12:57 PM) My guess is they'll keep him around for spot starting, possibly long relief, and assorted trips to the DL if they need a roster spot. Diaz and Adkins and Munoz are, to me, AAA roster fill and not much more. I think they'll sign some minor league FA's to fill out some depth and to ease the strain in spring training. Ya, they could be guys you deal for a utility guy otherwise they have zero value aside from roster depth in Charlotte (to try and help put together a winning team in Charlotte for the 1st time in a long time). Munoz could have a little something in him, but he's never impressed me much. Not bad depth in a worse case situation (cause you know they are all vets at this point, even though Munoz is young).

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 12:45 PM) Jason thanks for being politically correct with your response but are you endorsing the trade or are you like me? if we dont win the WS next year i will be asking myself the why did we do it question over and over. especially if thome gets hurt before the allstar break & arow is killing it in either Philly BOS or NY. I'm a fan of this deal. If Thome is healthy this is a great deal. If Thome is hurt it won't be a good deal, but all in all I think it makes sense. I think in the long run this opens up a spot for a talented Centerfielder who can be as good as Rowand defensively (I don't think he's there yet, but I know a lot of people within the org and on this board that I respect think that Anderson has the ability to be a top notch defensive CFer). Anderson also has pretty good pop and speed, the only thing I don't think he'll ever do is win a batting title (nor will Aaron). Its tough to see him go though, but I am favoring this deal. If Thome is healthy, him and Konerko give the Sox one of the best 3 3-4-5's in the AL, if not the game.

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 12:24 PM) this is very true and thanks for the guarantee. but how do you as a fan answer this question: That the team that just won the 2005 WS isnt good enough to win it in 2006? This is the burning question across the board in each and every player on our team right now and is definitely being discussed with those who talk to AROW today. HI8IS if someone told me that you were now a member of the cardinals fan club I would be just as outraged. I just remember all to well what happened to the Chicago Bears the year after the superbowl when Wilbur Marshall didnt get paid and left to go to the Redskins. A little different scenario but the same gut wrenching feeling! The key is to get better and Kenny is trying to do that. This years best isn't necessarily next year's best. The Sox had a couple key weaknesses last season that they were able to get through with, but whose to say they will next year. Plus next year anything can happen. Someone may have injury set backs or another team may just explode or the Sox may not be hot in the post-season. There are a lot of factors. I know one thing, the Angels stayed exactly put following there World Series win and they really paid for it. Your job as a GM is to do everything you can to improve your team and Kenny feels like this was that. Its tough to give up Aaron Rowand (he was a guy who has given nothing but his all and has been a part of this organization his entire professional career). That said he knows its a business. You can tell he's sad to be gone, but he has a new chapter in his life and he may end up back in Chicago in another year or two (you never know). Aaron enjoyed his time here and is thankful for that. Crede, him and AJ will be friends for life as far as I'm concerned. The two's bond wasn't just because they were teammates. Sure thats how they met each other, but they will continue to hang out and I'm sure when the Phils are in Chicago he will be spending some time with the 2 other stooges I too get sad when I think about not seeing Aaron patrol in center. He did his job so well, but from the business standpoint Brian Anderson has his tools and should be able to come in and post semi similar numbers. Thats not the key, but the key is the Sox will be able to get similar production (all around) out of CF while adding a DH thats superior to anything the Sox have had since Thomas' hay days. Who knows if it will pay out, but the move really filled a major void of last years team (DH) and a legit middle of the order bat to join Paulie. Ozzie has made it obvious he wants to find a new 2 hole hitter, that will probably be next. Aaron will never be forgotten and he'll always be thanked by Sox fans (at least myself, I will do nothing but pull for him). He isn't just a White Sox, he's an alumni of my school and I've been rooting and pulling for him since his minor league days.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 11:53 AM) Agree totally, and he made strides in that regard in '05. I'm not surprised at all the White Sox are asking about him, he is Guillen's type of player and exactly what they want in the #2 hole, speed to burn. He would thrive here. I'd say this. He's about as fast a guy in the minors, seems to handle the bat well for a 23 year old and the only thing the Sox would have to see is him develop some more patience (which could come). If he has a good work ethic and can play defense (I know he has range cause I've seen him make some amazing plays) he'd definately be a good fit. We have Pods for another year or two and he can be grooming his replacement and potential 2 hole hitter in Gathright (or you could have Gathright in the 9 spot which almost gives you a 2nd leadoff hitter). Plus if you turn the lineup over than all of a sudden Guchi (hitting 2nd) is almost like Guchi hitting 3rd and in a run producing spot (well not quite, but more so than last year). Gathright could steal himself 60 bases eventually. I liked the fact that he was caught stealing just 4 or 5 times (20 sucesses) and that was in a short season. The Drays would probably want pitching (although I just said they'd want some outfield prospects). I just don't know how much more pitching the Sox could give up. Could they (The DRays) have interest in Willie Harris (I don't really follow them much so I don't know there needs) and a pitching prospect (it would have to be a good one though...Gaithright is pretty well thought of, IIRC). Here's one...would they do a Josh Fields for Gathright swap? Looking at his stats closely he's had somewhat of a regression in terms of drawing walks, but he doesn't strike out a ridiculous amount of times. The odd thing is he has so few doubles and triples (that could be due to the parks, but once again I'm not all that familiar with the Drays organization as a whole).

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 11:41 AM) Oh my God, they are in no way shape or form gonna touch the SS position. They feel Uribe is just starting to realize his potential. Consistent? How about Uribe's defense. Ya, aside from the perennial MVP candidates at SS, there aren't many guys I'd rather have at SS than Juan. I still remember a few people whining and crying that we gave up Aaron Miles. Uribe is developing into a potential STUD of a SS. He's already a good one and a great defensive one (could a GG be in his future...I say YES).

I am cautiously optimistic, but iwill feel much better if he hammers 10 Hr's in April while putting up a good average. Than I'll really be feeling better. Of course who knows if he holds up. There is obviously some risk to this trade, if there wasn't any risk the Sox would have given up even more prospects and wouldn't have been getting that 22 million in cash.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 11:20 AM) I don't get why Crede is so sure to hit for a decent average... He came up big in the playoffs... It's just as likely he never comes close to anything similar and hits .240 next year... and his track record would lean toward the latter... He hit well in everything but 2 months so far the majority of the season he was .300 plus hitter with a damn good OPS.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 11:12 AM) I could see Huff as our 1B next year... That being said his price will be too high... The DRAY's are famous for wanting way too much for their guys... They have a new GM though.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 10:21 AM) Must be early in CA. What is an aftermality? Do they do the D-Ray deal because of the Thome trade, or drop the deal because of the trade? Who knows, LOL, but in my dictionary a Huff deal is off unless Konerko doesn't resign. I don't see that happening so I don't see Huff on the SouthSide. I could see Gaithright, but I don't like what he'd cost (in terms of what we gave up).

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 10:39 AM) You guys are forgetting the little things in BB. The so called intangibles that a player brings to the proverbial table. The hustle, leadership, desire, intensity, comraderie, friendship etc... You can easily build around guys like this if you have the money & GM. Look at what the Yankees did around Jeter, Angels around Erstad, White Sox around AROW. Steve Finley for any period of time is a disaster. BPenny walks the house in the important games. Lo Duca was huge for the Dodgers. I listened to the post game shows after the trade and saw the attendance drop in LA after the move. They loved him! He represents the Pete Rose in every fan! The Dodgers set a franchise record this season in attendance, without Paul LoDuca. They had injuries galore and Steve Finley was huge for them down the stretch that year and they were able to get into the playoffs. Brad Penny is the best player that came apart of that deal, thats not even to get into the financial rammifactions of why they made the trade. Also if the Angels could they'd unload Erstad, but the problem is no one would take them and there contract. The Angels were good the world series year because of all the different guys on that club and a super strong pen. This year they were there because of Vladdy and one of the 3 best pitching staffs in all of baseball. The White Sox were there because of the team, but because they had the best pitching staff in all of baseball (which was proven in the post-season). Just my 2 cents Kent. Wishes go out to you and your wife for a great thanksgiving

Just to speak of that LoDuca deal. The Dodgers got the best of that deal. They got Brad Penny and he's the best player of that deal. LoDuca is mediocre, Mota was lousy last year, and Encarnacion is a solid player. Brad Penny is a darn good pitcher plus they got half a year of Steve Finley out of that deal.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 08:19 AM) Happy Thanksgiving to all of my friends and extended family here at Soxtalk. Have a safe and happy holiday What he said. Hope everyone has a great thanksgiving. Eat some turkey, ham, or whatever else you like on this day

Well this is strange. The Fish turned down a better offer by the Dodgers because they thought this deal was done. Joel Guzman alone makes the deal greater, but I happen to think Billingsley is a damn good pitching prospect to go on top of it. Joel Guzman is so much better than Hanley Ramirez (as a prospect) its not even funny. If the BoSox stall, than Florida may get an even better deal (assuming Ned Colletti is still willing to offer it).

To be honest the Cubs need to overpay to get Bullpen help. If they landed a guy like Bj Ryan to close for them than I'd say (while they overpaid for some guys) that they did there job of revamping the bullpen. No one can say if Howry and Eyre will stay up for 3 years and pitch like they did this past year, but if they do and they find a closer Hendry paid too much, but he will have filled his teams biggest weakness.

Also, I don't get why the Drays would trade a cheap, talented young outfielder. If they did you'd bet they'd get Sweeney and a prospect or Anderson straight up. I wouldn't do that for Gathright. Gathright is fast as hell and I think he's pretty solid defensively (although I haven't seen enough of him) but he has yet to develop into a top of the order hitter (ie drawing walks and all that stuff). That said if I were going to tab a guy as being a good leadoff hitter 2-3 years from now it would definately be Gaithright. He has killer speed and I dont know about his arm. I saw him make some fabulous defensive plays in Anaheim (but that doesn't mean he's great defensively).

I'd assume that with Thome here Huff is now an aftermality. Although if Paulie isn't resigned that could be Konerko's backup plan. Huff had a down year but I still think he's a good hitter.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 04:37 AM) I have to put this out there--would you be willing to trade Brian Anderson as part of a deal to get Pierre? Because from the looks of it, the marlins will be looking for someone to play LF and Cf to start in 2006. If I were the Marlins, I'd want an Ofer in return No. Pierre makes too much money to give up that type of prospect. Marte and some change or no deal, imo.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 04:09 AM) David Schuster, a reporter on WSCR 670, is saying this morning that he still thinks that Juan Pierre is coming to the Sox, not the Cubs. That could just be him (like many of us are) putting two and two together. Levine may have talked to someone that mentioned that the Sox are comfortable with Anderson or maybe they mentioned that they thought the asking price was too high for Pierre. Maybe they just don't want to spend all that money on Pierre because they have that money tabbed on other things.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 12:47 AM) What are the realistic chances that the White Sox trade for Juan Pierre ? It seems as if, to me at least, that there is no chance - Brian Anderson would get the 1st opportunity to take an OF job and at a minimum salary, that is probably the desired option especially since the White Sox just traded some good minor league pitching. BTW, what kind of shape is the White Sox minor league system in after this trade ? Obviously, they seem stacked in the OF, but how about pitching ? Hopefully, Konerko resigns to go with Thome, but I think Iguchi is our #2 hitter again! Not that strong. However Broadway, Tracey, Liotta and Lumsden all have major league stuff and arms.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 09:25 AM) Beck, back to more intelligent discussion which I believe is what you were looking for. No question Guillen loves Castillo, he's exactly the player he looks for but I don't see Iguchi being moved. The White Sox feel Iguchi will be a better player next year, with one year's adjustment to the league and possibly less pressure by being moved down in the order. The biggest question mark with Iguchi has been answered ... he is solid defensively at 2B. I think they will keep him for the next two years at least, and try to develop Chris Getz as the 2B of the future, they are very high on Chris Getz. But I agree with your premise, especially your comments about strikeouts. Guillen wants this team to K a lot less and he wants that #2 hitter to take pressure off Podsednik. After a nite to sleep on it, the wild card here is Jerry Owens. I still have my doubts they will go with a rookie(s) in CF but if they have complete and total faith in their young players they just might do it. As I always say, they (mgmt.) are a lot closer to the situation than we are, and let's face it they have earned our trust. Guillen went down to winter ball and was impressed with Owens so he may very well factor into the equation if they can't get or aren't interested in someone from outside the organization (Pierre). Do you go with these 4 outfielders for 2006: Podsednik, Anderson, Dye, Owens? Unorthodox maybe, but possible? I think the next two weeks will tell the story, maybe sooner, i.e. after the physicals and when KW can comment more specifically on the trade and future plans. If Thome, Konerko and Dye are producing in the middle of the lineup (plus AJP and Iguchi down in the order) it makes it a lot more easy for you to develop 2 young outfielders, imo.