Chisoxfn

ATO: Haigwood to Bham; Wing to WS By Jason Gage July 2, 2005 FutureSox.com The Winston Salem Warthogs will return a familiar face to their rotation as Ryan Wing has officially been placed on their roster. The roster spot opened when LHP Daniel Haigwood was promoted to AA Birmingham. Haigwood excelled in the Hogs rotation going 8-2 with a 3.77 ERA and was a Carolina League All Star...MORE

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:43 AM) That's what I'm saying. There was nothing encouraging about last night's game. Shingo gives up 2 ER, Cotts allows them to score, Vizcaino seemed serviceable at the best, Walker gave us what we expected, and the offense disappeared after the first inning. That game just sucked ass, like all other Oakland games before it. Just think of it this way....Oakland isn't going to make the playoffs so if the Sox do make it, they at least won't have to match up with them

QUOTE(wsox08 @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:45 AM) Yeah McCarthy is our #5 because he is replacing El Duque... Are they going to smush in McCarthy right after Buehrle's start again or is he going to get more rest? Bmac is pitching on Monday with Garland and Buehrle pitching today and tomorrow respectively so I think he got dropped back a start, because if I recall last time he was in between Garland and Buehrle.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:40 AM) What do we do when El Duque gets hurt again? Will Contreras s*** his pants again when his friend isn't there to comfort him? Duque will get hurt again, that might as well be written in stone. I just think there's too many ifs in our rotation now. I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but that's how I feel. No we see what Contreras can do. 4 starts and peopel forget how much he kicked ass earlier in the year. I know some of us were saying he had pitched as good, if not better than any of the other Sox starters at one point this year. He was kicking butt and after a few rough outings people forget that. Last night was ugly, but every pitcher is going to have ugly games, most of them end up as games where a ton of runs are given up as well as hits, Jose's happen to be with tons of walks/wp's, etc. It was crappy, but overall he's kept the club in games and done a pretty good job. I'm not talking about Duque because I think he's worthless. However, I have a lot more faith in Bmac than most and I do tend to agree with the theory of adding another starter and I'd like to see the Sox work out something for Burnett but I just don't see it happening. Starters like that are going to cost a whole lot (both financially speaking and in terms of prospects) and its not worth giving up all those prospects for half a year of Burnett. All that said if Jose can go back to pitching like he did earlier in the year, and he's very well capable of that, than I'm less concerned and can live with either Brandon or Duque down the stretch in the 5th spot. In that situation I'd rather see someone like Lidge or another very good reliever acquired for the stretch run.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:40 AM) Just to clarify things, who exactly is our 5th starter now ... Contreras, Hernandez or McCarthy? It seems every time one of these guys gets ripped, they are compared to 5th starter black hole of prior years. Hernandez is on the DL so he can't be. I'd say right now the team has 2 5th starters in Jose and McCarthy. But Jose would obviously get the bump as being the 4th starter.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:39 AM) I was disappointed also. He may be on his second to last chance here. At least it is early in the season. The way I see it he has horrific stuff and to make things worse zero control. That doesn't bode well and his ERA isn't going to drop. I don't know what he once had back in the days, but he's a AAAer at best now. I don't know why he ever got a shot this year to be honest. I understand he pitched great in spring training, but he did nothing in AAA to earn the promotion the first time he was called up. Then he sucked at the major league level (remember this isn't some rookie getting adjusted, this is a former MLer) and now they go back to him even though he's continuing to stink in the minors. I could give a damn if the Sox only have Cotts from the left side until Marte comes back. Walker is not an option and shouldn't be. If they want a lefty go to Munoz or make a trade (not suggesting it) otherwise just bring up a guy that can pitch and ignore the stupid righty/lefty crap. Jenks or Baj would be lightyears more valuable. For example they could of came in and at least killed some innings last night instead of burning the pen.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 09:19 AM) Yeah, all he had to do was get close to the strike zone on that 2nd batter, and he didn't. Further, had he done his job there, Ozzie could have let him pitch another inning to save the bullpen a bit. Instead, he used everyone but Hermanson and Politte. They don't have anyone else in the minors any better (lefthanded), so unless they bring someone in they are stuck with Walker until Marte comes back. Thats the thing, they don't need 2 lefties. Teams can go without them plenty of times. Walker is useless so why have him up just because he's a lefty. Ozzie is just sticking to someone he saw in Tuscon and thats not the best approach in this case. Wilder and Kenny both must know that Jenks/Baj are better options, even if they aren't lefties. Walker is absolutely pathetic and doesn't deserve to sniff a major league roster. Get up someone like Baj or Jenks who can at least help the club in this type of game and at the same time get their feet wet. Both of them are lightyears better than Walker, even if they aren't left handed. Hell, Arnie Munoz is struggling, but if the Sox want a lefty I'd rather see Arnie than Walker. Arnie has better stuff and well frankly he's not Kevin Walker.

QUOTE(BHAMBARONS @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:26 AM) He had excellent control last night threw one borderline ball (should have been a Strike). He was outstanding If Marte ends up being out for a little longer, I think there is a decent chance Jenks will be on the squad.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 09:25 AM) Why all the gloom? We are 9.5 games up with the best record in baseball and we want to execute the usual suspects. We don't need any blockbuster trades. What we need is to get those two Cuban pitchers straightened out. Ozziie has the Coopmeister working on a plan I hope. last night was like a butcher at work on the mound. Contreras has a fragility about him that is very troubling and if everything isn't just right with him then last night is what you see. Just remember the club is also like 10 or 11 and 3 these past two weeks. This team has good pitching and its always had near the power of last years club, despite what the media wants you to hear. The difference this year is pitching, both starting and relieving, and its why the team is playing so much better. Now if the Sox offense hits a funk, if they can at least muster up a few runs they have a good shot at winning the game, if they can score a good amount than they are near a lock to win the game.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:27 AM) Right now, I'm still willing to say that Jose has just had a bad month. He's gotten away from what he was doing earlier in the year, and is throwing far too many balls...thus getting him behind in the count and letting people hammer him. The thing I'd say at this point is that everyone goes through good and bad times. The year the Marlins won the series, Dontrelle Willis had an ERA nearly 7 during August. Last year, several of Boston's starters were terrible in June. I'll agree that Jose needs to be kept on a short leash, but he still should get some leeway. At least until after the AS break. Give him some time to work through this and try to get some control back. If he keeps walking 6 guys in 4 innings, then I will come around to the "we need another starter" point of view. Yesterday's game was just intolerable. We beat ourselves because Jose (and a few others) couldn't throw strikes. Don't get me started on Kevin Walker. He doesn't deserve to be in the majors. In fact, I dont' think he'd be on any other major league team if the Sox were to cut him. I'm absolutely appalled that Ozzie has went with the familiarity instead of going with the better players (Baj/Jenks). I realize he wants to have a 2nd lefty, but if that lefty is crap, than you should go with another righty, plus Cotts can be used on a more heavy basis and there are plenty of teams that can go through stretches with just one lefty reliever. Hell, for a few years the Angels didn't have any.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 10:19 AM) [/b] That's the thing. The guy is like 35-40 years old and has been pitching since he was probably 14. He's not learning anything else. This is the pitcher that Jose Contreras is, but he's actually more of a thrower. He has no idea how to pitch and he's too pig-headed or scared to listen to the catcher. The thing that scares me is that I don't trust him or McCarthy now. I really feel like we need another starter. There is a difference between pitching in the majors and pitching in Cuba. He's got issues and a lot of it may due to him not being comfortable. El Duque being in the clubhouse probably helps him but he's still developing himself. This is stuff thats between the ears and he's going to have to adjust to the way major league baseball is played. I know most expected him to adjust more quickly (the Yanks sure did) but he's made strides this year. Just look at his numbers and compare them to previous 5th starters the Sox have had. Contreras may be in a funk, but I can't see how people can forget the way he pitched for most of this season thus far. The guy has been pretty damn solid and should have 6 or 7 wins if it weren't for crappy relief and zero run support in his games. He causes a lot of problems, but he's not near as bad as a lot of you say he is. I'd be the first to say I don't like watching him pitch, but that doesn't mean he's an awful pitcher, in fact he's better than the major league average, imo. And how the hell people are calling for El Duque to replace him I'll never know. Duque had a ridiculously high WHIP and not only walked too many batters, but he also gave up way too many hits. Maybe when he comes back Duque will pitch more like the Duque of old, but I'm not holding my breath and he's not a better option at this point than Jose.

QUOTE(UofIChiSox @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 08:51 AM) I too feel that there is no way that we can have Contreras continue starting like that. I know baseball is a team sport, but last night's loss can be put squarely on his shoulders. I know his record is 3-5 now, but what would it be if our team hadn't bailed him out and gotten him into no decision situations? Anywhere else and Contreras would probably be about 2-10. That being said, I don't see any way to possibly be able to move him unless maybe we're willing to pay him to pitch for another team, but then again, maybe we'd be better off with that. What are you talking about. Early in the season he continually got screwed out of wins by the bullpen. Jose has pitched very well this season. I know he struggled last night and can be tough to watch, but his numbers have been good and he's kept the club in most games. Its frustrating to watch him, I'll admit, but thats probably because we all have seen the potential he has and expect to see it. I know I've seen a few starts this year where I'm just in awe at how he pitches. Problem is once he gets into a jam he's gonna struggle the rest of that inning. He just creates problems and needs to learn to pitch with some confidence.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:21 PM) We should be in a good position heading into the offseason. Assuming we pass our attendence of last year, we'll raise the payroll anywhere from $5-$15 million, if not more. If I were GM, I'd look to restructure Thomas' deal to keep him here for the rest of his career, but not at $10 million -- maybe $7-$8. Then the same goes for Garland and Pierzynski. Konerko is gonna get a lot of money, and I bet he and his agent know that. Let him walk, get yourself a good thirdbaseman or one of the several 1B prospects that seem to be popping up -- Gonzalez from Texas, Howard from Philly, or (not a prospect) Overbay from Milwaukee. Or you could just move Dye to first and use he and Gload there. I wouldn't go that far. It really depends highly on payroll and how the Sox do. If they make the playoffs than I think your scenario is likely, but if they don't Kenny has already hinted some changes will have to be made (Contreras and Duque would likely be the guys or at least two of them to be a part of those changes). Plus you have to consider Frank and Paulie. One of those guys will be gone. If things go well, than the Sox could keep the current team pretty much together and have a little room to up payroll for another player or two. First I just want to see the team continue to kick butt this year. That and I'd like to see Chavez and a good reliever. I'd ooze my pants over Chavez and Lidge but I highly doubt it would happen.

QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) i'm lmao at your sig right now. and cursing you at the same time. nananananana leader!!! what is hurting on jose? I'm glad you picked up on my sig. That has to be one of the greatest simpsons episodes ever It looks like he had some cramps in his calf.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:18 PM) Tom Cruise did alright, pretty much what I expected from him. The little girl in the movie was incredible. She portrayed the terror so well, and didn't have to give that shrill little kid cry to do it. She stole the movie. Dakota Fanning was fantastic. Every movie she's in you find yourself getting caught up with her character. I wonder if she'll suffer some sort of child star fate. I don't know if she will, but man is she good (from I am Sam to all the other stuff she's done).

Hopefully Jose is ok. It would put the Sox in a tough bind if both him and Duque are down.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:14 PM) I suppose it depends on what the Sox do with the $8.5 million they'd save. Put at least half into a productive third baseman perhaps if they don't want to keep Crede, and the rest in the bullpen. Or say Chavez at 3rd

I finally saw it and enjoyed it quite a bit as well. Good action scenes. There were some cheasy parts, but as a whole I liked the movie. I had to look past my dislike for Tom Cruise. I used to not mind him, but now I find myself calling him a deuche Good movie though, don't know if I'd say great...thats reserved for Batman Begins.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:13 PM) You wouldn't have Gio Gonzalez as an untouchable Jason? No. I like Gio a lot as a prospect, but no way am I going to list an A ball pitcher as untouchable. He has a lot more to prove before I'd mark him as untouchable. Plus if the Sox are getting a guy like AJ Burnett and are willing to sign him for another couple years, than ya, I'd deal him in a heartbeat. Just throwing out a random name, but if they are getting a major leaguer that will help them now and in the future years, I'd deal him and wouldn't think twice. IF he was putting up those numbers in AA or AAA, another story, but A ball is still a ball. He's still got a long way to go.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:07 PM) I did see that. The thing I never thought I'd see would be John Stamos on our board He'll be at the next tailgate too Ranger. I hope you were a full house fan, cause he'll sign all the pictures you have of him.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:04 PM) Our discussion is kind of two-fold. Is Young the one player I wouldn't deal, no matter what? As of right now, no. It's exactly that greater chance of a flop. Can he turn into a productive MLB player? Sure. I just want to reserve judgement til after some more minor league experience,w hich both you and i know he needs anyways. By no means am I saying he will flop. I'm just saying that his chances at "high reward" don't overwhelm me as much as they do you. Of course, I'm never gonna hear the end of it from you when he recieves his first all-star bid. My thoughts are this. Untouchables are guys that can become total stars. I'm less likely to say that Sweeney is going to be a total star. He's just not matched his potential with production. He has good tools across the board and has a nice swing, but the numbers aren't there. If Sweeney starts raking I could put him back into that category and he has been rushed a bit, but this year will be the time where he's given the opportunity to settle in (next year could be a year in which he explodes and I know a few people think he'll do so in the 2nd half). When it comes to Young he skipped WS and is still clubbing the hell out of the ball. He plays an awesome CF and is very fast. Plus he has the ability to hit 30 HR's and 40-50 doubles. The guy is an xtra base machine and could be like Andruw Jones. Ie, never hit for much average, but just hit tons of xtra base hits. Not saying he'll be like Andruw defensively either, but he's definately an above average CF. Anderson rates ahead of both, although once again Young may be the best talent wise of the group. Its hard to say though because Anderson has the stronger arm, but a little less power. Both are very good and Anderson is a lot closer and much more of a "sure thing". Not that he is a sure thing cause there is no such thing as that. When it comes to pitchers the only untouchable I'd list would be Bmac. Even then he wouldn't be untouchable for a stud player that would be here for more than just this year. Same can be said for every prospect in the system.

QUOTE(brijames @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 07:04 PM) Is it just me or is it excruciatingly painful watching Contreras pitch? Yes, but when he pitches good its a thing of beauty. Its just hard cause he hits those funks in an inning where he can't throw strikes. Still, I complain sometimes when watching Jose, overall I've been impressed with him this year and he's making strides. The guy I can't stand watching is Duque.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 06:54 PM) Keep the pressure on, I would run Iguchi here. Kendall has a noodle arm. Pods, Guchi, and Rowand should be running all series long. I'd tell them they can go when they are comfortable and would even let them push it a bit. Kendall isn't a good defensive catcher and they should take advantage of it. I wouldn't do this with Uribe (awful jumps) or any of the other runners, but I'd even think of letting Carl or Dye run at one point or another this season. Carl isn't that quick, but he always seems to get real good jumps.

Good idea splitting this Alex. I just can't look past the way he plays center mixed with the fact that he's an extra base hit machine. When he hits the ball, there's a good shot its gonna be a big time hit. Heck Young could turn into a right handed version of Jim Edmons. Ie, when he makes contact he just crushes the ball. Thats probably a stretch, but when I talk explosive, I mean a guy that can just make things happen on the field. He's the type of guy that can have huge huge games. He'll also hit some funks. All that said I do agree he has a greater chance of flopping than other prospects. I'm really looking forward to seeing Jenks curveball and if its where it was when he was healthy with the Angels. If it is and Jenks is mentally stable, he should be at the major league level at some point this year, even if it is at Baj's expense. I love Baj, but Jenks is a total stud and is near ready, if not ready, to contribute at the major league level. Baj is also ready, but Jenks has the ability to be an explosive reliever while I think of Baj more as a serviceable reliever (something all teams need).

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 1, 2005 -> 06:51 PM) We're all over the place tonight... Kinda spilling over to the other thread.... I'm not doubting Chris can put it all together, nothing would make me happier. I'm just saying that if I had to pick one Sox OF prospect to get excited over, it's not him. Of course, you've known I'm high on Anderson and Sweeney, and if I had that untouchable tag, it'd go on Brian. Things can definitley change in a year, and I am excited abotu Chris and his power numbers. I just want to see that average go up. Hell, the Sox proved this year you don't need power to win, and I'm excited as to the prospects of Anderson fitting into that mold. Doesn't mean that a Young, Anderson and Sweeney/Owens OF in Charlotte next year shouldn't be fun as heck to watch. But that's a year away. Sorry Alex, but the Sox proved that you need pitching to win. They still are amongst the major league leaders in HR's (top 7 I think) and are scoring runs at a decent clip as well. Pods gives them an extra dimension in terms of creating runs, but the reason this team is winning (the big reason) is the play from both the rotation and the bullpen. If the Sox had this sort of production from their staff last year, they'd be in a similar place.