Chisoxfn

I'd presume the hold up with Robertson is some suitors want him in a package deal, so we are holding out hope on bigger deal, while potentially having other deal on the table. Would presume we'd see Robertson get moved within next half hour (as you can't run risk much past that and then you just turn the attention to other things). Problem with more guys available, means more tasks being jumbled, and higher risk of things not getting done in time.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:00 PM) Yeah I don't think Tate moves the needle much in the Yankees for Sale sweepstakes, he's fallen pretty hard this year. This is further evidence why you need to get a ton of top talent to justify trading people like Sale / Q. They are going to be here for 3 / 4 years and we are able to get that value over that span (knowing they are already the best at their respective positions in the game (i.e., top 10-15). It is why this "surplus" value of minor league talent is so absurdly overrated.

I legit ponder that Sale to Yanks is only real shot at this point (of moving Sale). Cashman and Kenny have historical strong working relationship and Cashman usually is a pretty fair guy when it comes to deals and they are looking long-term and have other ways of supplementing needs. Tate gives them extra ammunition, but Tate is also pretty overrated. His performance has been pretty lousy. ERA over 5 in A ball. People are down on Fulmer, but he's been better than Tate this year.

QUOTE (TRU @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) Yeah, I made a general observation of this teams deadline short comings in the Chris Sale thread. I see how that post could have confused you into thinking I want them to trade Sale for whatever was offered regardless of how "good" the package was. To clarify so you don't lump me into the rest of the meathead crowd who just wants to see something done just because.. I want this team to pick a direction to go in, there are pieces on this team that can and should be moved today.. If you are out of it (Which we are) then moves need to be made to either 1.) Support the team next season (If they believe they can still compete) or 2.) Support the team in the future (If they believe its time to rebuild) Sitting on your hands and doing nothing, that's not a direction. As a fan, I want to see them commit one way or the other. Don't come out and tell me were mediocre and then not do anything, that tells me you're ok with being mediocre. Not to put words in your mouth, but I think my follow-on post to yours probably summed your line of thinking up. We said we are mediocre, now we expect to see some action today and more in the off-season. Do not be the same team starting next season. In no way were you saying you had to move Q or Sale or you'd be pissed, you simply said, you need to start that process now (that means moving Robertson, Shields, etc) and then continuing that effort in the off-season (and even then, it doesn't mean you necessarily move both Sale & Q, but you need to move one of them before the start of next season to truly shift the balance / change the philosphy). Whether it works, who knows, but when the current path is mediocrity and you've publicly indicated it, then you need to do different. That could be spending $1B on payroll too (and go the opposite direction) but they need to change things up because the current status isn't working (if you listen to what Hahn has said).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:50 AM) Rangers just gave up Tate, for Beltran I see the Yankees happening.

Today, I'm wearing my favorite White Sox T under my business clothes as a sign of support / goodluck. My CFO got a good kick out of it when I mentioned it to him this morning.

I will say this, if we don't trade Shields and/or Robertson, my opinion changes slightly, but those are two guys (you could kind of include Miguel Gonzalez in there as well), who don't fit into our longer term plans and probably don't see there value go anywhere but down (and the long-term value they bring to the organization, in light of where we stand from a competiveness perspective. When it comes to Sale / Q, I think unless we get literally blown away, the better offers and the better risk adjusted return most likely exists in the off-season, when young, major league talent, becomes available. Now if we go through next off-season, without having made quite a few moves (with some happening now and some happening in the off-season) to begin the retooling (based upon Hahn's recent statements), then I think everything Tru said becomes a real factor. Basically don't start next season without having significantly changed the course / path towards success.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:34 AM) Keith Law just stopped short of calling Bickford worthless. He would appear to be someone who has been extremely over-hyped. Reports from his Fullerton days weren't overly kind. Best thing that probably happened to him was him leaving and thus not showcasing himself. Probably someone who benefited a lot from the "hype" train / raw ability train. That said, I'd have been interested in him nonethless. Still potential upside.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) Pederson is a LH Todd Frazier at the plate, only he hits fewer homers. Today he is. He's also in his 2nd season in the majors and is extremely young. Oh and he plays a premium position and has all the defensive tools you'd want. I wouldn't peg him to be Mike Trout, but we know what his floor is based upon his current production, but ceiling still exists (the strikeouts clearly are an item that will likely significantly impact his ability to hit that ceiling). He's still on pace for a 4ish type WAR this year (which is a major upgrade from his rookie season...basically he's already at his rookie WAR). Basically put, a lot of people had such high expectations on this guy, that I think you forget he needs to develop. A contender isn't always patient, but I think getting Joc and/or Puig in a deal would get me excited if I were the White Sox. I see legit upside. In fact, I'd do a deal for Q centered around Urias, Puig, and Pederson. Not saying the Dodgers make that deal and others here might think I'm underselling the notion, but I think you get a pitcher who has upside plus two guys who are upgrades on the White Sox with upside as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:17 AM) That's a good point too. If they are going to rebuild, they have to have someone around to keep it interesting. And if you are giving up someone like Shields or even Robertson for that matter, I can at least see the upside of the Puig proposition. He is the type of example of a guy who could potentially benefit from a change of scenery. The Dodgers view him for what he's been and it is hard to change their perception and I think as a result he's very "tight" at this point. I think going elsewhere will help him. That isn't to say he instantly becomes the player he was the 1st two years, but that talent exists and even getting to 80% of that would be very valuable, imo.

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) I want one of two packages for Sale. Urias, De Leon, Puig, Verdugo and Calhoun OR Urias, Pederson, Verdugo and Calhoun I'm borderline on Calhoun. I was going to post this without including him at all. I would walk away very quickly from either of those scenarios.

Will it be our closer for Puig?

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) I've lost a lot of respect for him this past month. He sucks at trade evaluation The flaw in his logic is he bases things based upon surplus value and the surplus value for an unrpoven player is significantly overrated in his model as it doesn't not seem to account for "bust factor" probability and seems far more focused on ascribing a surplus value based more on the ceiling vs. anything else. As a result, you include one top 10 prospect and the "surplus" value damn near equates to Sale (which for all the reasons I said above, clearly should make damn near zero plausible sense).

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:48 AM) From Dave Cameron's deadline chat today: Jimmy: Benintendi/Rodriguez/Devers/Swihart for Sale. Deal? Dave: That's a big overpay for Boston. C'mon Dave, big overpay? I wouldn't call it an overpay and I don't know that the Sox do that deal. They might. I think what pushes it over is Moncada in and Robertson in. That is the deal I think the White Sox do (not sure if the Red Sox do it though).

This seems like such a quiet deadline compared to past years (MLB related, not White Sox related).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) Cotillo: Shields for Puig possible I'd be all over that one. Can't see the Dodgers doing it.

QUOTE (Tony @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:35 AM) The White Sox want Yasiel Puig if they make a deal with the Dodgers. Per Buster. The obvious question then becomes...why? Probably cause they figure there is change of scenario upside. I presume he's the 3rd or 4th piece in a package and not the headliner, but he's the piece they want. I presume Urias and DeLeon are in the deal as the top minor league talent and then Puig is the major league guy and then you are talking about another one or two prospects.

I will continue to say, I find it highly improbable that Sale is dealt now. The Sox would be taking much greater risk, most likely, dealing him now, because it is far less likely they can get young, proven MLB assets (such as a Betts) if you deal at the deadline. If you wait to the off-season, the package shifts a bit, but you also probably get yourself at least a guy or two who lower the potential "floor" of the deal. In a lot of the "rumored" deals I've seen, It would almost take every guy hitting their ceiling for the trade to have very much upside. For example, if a deal is centered around Urias, then the liklihood he even becomes something close to Sale is pretty unlikely, so to win out or even get fair, you need to get a few other guys who are solid contributors (and to have that, you need enough to make up for the typical bust rates, etc). It isn't like we have a guy with one year left, where you realize, you are talking about a shorter-duration in terms of value given up, but in Sale and Q's case, we have years of control, so the benefit of these young players "and the additional years" of control is minimized a bit as well.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:51 PM) Off the top of my head, that actually may not be enough, when you add up the current & surplus value. At the same time, Boston might not need a ~2 WAR SP for the rest of this season to compete. I've been picky on what it would take, but that type of offer from Boston gets it done no problem. By the way, welcome aboard!!!

All of you f***ing stop. This is ridiculous.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 12:43 PM) They thought they were going to win based on some bad internal polling/unskewing, but they never stopped campaigning hard right to the end. He never really had a chance. I disagree, I think they took their foot off the gas at the time they needed to step on it. But only in another dimension and who really knows, anyway.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 11:34 AM) Mitt Romney ran a Tea Party campaign when it turned out he probably could have ran as the centre-right governor he was and done a lot better. But he still probably would have lost. Yeah...I don't think Mitt ran a teaparty campaign.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 11:24 AM) Romney's campaign wasn't that bad. I'd say he was solid-starter level. It's just that Obama is better at campaigning than just about anybody in politics right now. Romeny's problem was he relied on bad information and pulled up before the thing was over. I legitimately think he could have won the election four years ago (than again, I like Mitt).

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) I am late to this argument but I feel like basically everyone on the right completely and maybe deliberately missed the point of Michelle Obama bringing up slavery. That wasn't a pessimistic statement at all, it was the polar opposite. She said "this house was built by slaves and now I, a descendant of African slaves, live in this house with my two black daughters, look at how far America has come in two centuries." That's a statement that has real, tangible emotional impact on black viewers, and it was bewildering to see people questioning or criticizing it afterwards (this should be common knowledge!). I got the same thing out of it (and I am on the right).

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 08:04 AM) No update since then, shack must still be cutting his lawn LOL.