Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 06:05 PM) I agree with all that. And as I mentioned earlier, if the only thing you are looking for in a job is money, than perhaps working is a better way. But if you have a passion for History or English, there are careers that you can get that are more rewarding for that person than trades. I would argue that if you are going into the trades, an apprentice program would be valuable. But if you decide to become an auto mechanic because you can make $45,000 a year but you love English. You just might be happier in the long run working at a book publisher for $30,000 a year. Lets be honest, 30K a year ain't going to provide most people with the necessary life-style to raise a family. Money, whether people like to admit it or not, has to be a part of your thought process while you are in school. Sure, you like english or jazz, take classes in that, but also double in something else so that 10 years down the line when you want a family and would like to go on a vacation every now and than you can actually afford to do those things.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 06:04 PM) You're mis-stating the position. The premise is that some people can be better off without a college degree. For many degrees, there is not enough additional compensation to make up for the cost of the degree. Those estimates of "One million more!" include guys like the founders of Google who are billionaires. It isn't necessarily a realistic expectation. To me learning a trade is the equivalent of getting a degree. And I think a huge flaw with our school system is we look down on the trades and shouldn't because you can be highly successful and they are very lucrative professions if you are provided with the right opportunities and training.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 03:55 PM) No, I didn't state my point clearly. The college grad has a ton of debt and can't afford to take that job opening for $10. The HS grad, who has a significantly smaller debt load, can. Economics forces the debt-laden college grads to look for higher paying jobs or be unable to pay their bills. The idea that college grads typically earn more isn't a bad one, but it isn't a hard-and-fast rule, either. It is heavily dependent on the degree you choose. Finance or software/ computer engineering? Yeah, you can make a good buck. Journalism? History? English? You could be stuck with a sales rep or sales assistant job making less than $30k very easily. Go into the trades and you can be making good money for years while your friends are racking up debt. I'm by no means downplaying the importance of education or even education for knowledge's sake. However, I think its unfortunate that so many kids have it drilled into them that "no college=failure". Whoa...if you go into the trades, you probably will make as much if not more than a college grad. But you will put in the time and will need to get apprenticed (either by your dad or someone else). And it helps to have a business background because typically if you are in the trades you ultimately become an entrepeneur if you are going to be sucessful (become a contractor, have your own repair business, etc). But if you walk out of high school and say f*** college, I'm going to go work my way up at Walgreens good freaking luck to you. An average college grad that gets a semi attractive degree with a decent degree will blow you out of the water quickly. Hell, the 1st job they get might be paying them 50K and when you compare that to the 10 bucks an hour you are making well quite frankly it blows. Oh and they might have even gotten an internship in college that paid them 15-25 bucks an hour to work too.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) That is simply not true. Sometimes they do not want to allocate the money in their budget for a college graduate, so they simply do not respond to college graduates who apply. I cannot tell you how many positions I applied for after graduating with a law degree, only to be told, "you are vastly over-qualified, sorry." They are afraid to offer the job to you even if you accept a lower salary to start because these things usually have a habit of coming back up again when it is time for raises or promotions. If you have a law degree and are applying for an entry level marketing position, they are going to feel more comfortable offering the marketing major out of college as opposed to you. Yes, you have the better degree and a law degree, but they are likely to stay in there field and be doing something that fits there long-term goal so the stability is there. A freaking professional company isn't going to hire a high schooler over a college kid for an entry level finance/marketing/accounting position.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 11:39 AM) If it means the HS degree will do the same work for less money... But if the pay was the same, more often than not they'd take the college grad. There are exceptions though because you might be able to get the high school grad to stay long-term where as the college grad has dreams and aspirations and won't stick around some s***ty 10 buck an hour job.

QUOTE (The Beast @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 08:03 AM) There's nothing wrong with the well-rounded individual, but some of those general education requirements are ridiculous. For some general education classes, they are a waste of time. Why should I be writing English papers when I could test out of that class and work on the deficiency that I have in math? Why do I bother going to a 4-year university to start out with when I could get the same education at a community college and work to learn some responsibility? Not to mention, a lot of people don't even take those classes seriously and don't get anything out of say, a speech class. I don't believe the general education requirements last for 2 years as some schools try to force you into a major after 1 year of college. At least that is how it was in my initial experience. Just because you are good at something doesn't mean you're interested in it. I'm good at writing but it doesn't mean I want to be a journalist or English professor. For all I know I'll be back in school after my BA in Business to be an educator. You just never know. THE CC route is a great route and can work fantasticaly, but I won't even pretend to think that you get the same education at a CC as you do at some 4 year institutions. I did all of my classes at my 4 year school and that means I took all of my pre-req business courses (like Accounting 101, the basic management, marketing, bus law classes, etc) at a 4 year institution. I had friends who joined me in school after going the CC route who took the stuff at the CC (and these are smart people, not just some slacker) and the difference was night and day between what I learned and they learned and it gave me a head start on them and allowed me to become more technically strong in my field, thus giving me better grades and helping me get a better job out of college. The CC route is a great way for someone to go if you don't have the money, aren't quite sure what you want to do yet, or just dicked around too much in college, but there is a lot to benefit by going the true 4 year way as well and the undergrad classes are important because they help you learn to be more balanced.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 05:57 AM) That's not what I asked Tex. I asked what careers are still out there where you can get a good job WITH a college degree. Accounting, Finance. Clearly, you are benefited in life by getting degrees which allow you to take valuable certifications. If you do Finance, you can become a CFA. If you do accounting, you can become a CPA. Those give you a hard skill-set that puts you above a ton of other candidates for positions and that is valuable. On the IT side there are plenty of options as well.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 04:45 AM) I simply don't know how you can say this with any certainty. This is what we have been told for years, but it simply does not seem to be bearing itself out in practice. Many employers would rather take a less-educated empoyee on at the most entry level position and pay him less. Try having an advanced degree and applying for jobs only requiring BAs and listening to them tell you how overqualified you are, even when you are willing to negotiate salary within their given range. Well I could have never gotten my job without a degree and I make pretty damn good money for a 26 year old.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 3, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) I'm going to get back to this thread later on this evening when I have more time. But one point I would like to make for you to chew on now, is that if you have any experience in the lower level job market (positions for recent college grads or employees in the beginning stages of their career), you know that employers almost would rather you not be highly trained in their field. Many corporations have individualized training programs and would rather train you in their method and manner than have to waste the time "untraining" you and then re-training you. This is in large part why the value of a college degree has decreased and willingness to start at the bottom rung of the latter with a desire and willingness to move up has gained more of a foothold than in previous job markets. I don't buy the above one bit. The college degree just shows that you have a willingness to learn at a high level and are responsible (yes it does more than that, but at the basic level it does that). It doesn't teach me anything about what I'm going to do in the real world, it might teach me the regulations and laws that apply and basic theories to an approach, but that is about it. A company hires you with your college background because it shows you are smart enough to pick up what they train you. And really only some companies will train you that well (ie, the big time companies with reputations for being exceptional places to start your career). So I don't buy this load of mularkey that for a corporate position of some sort they now want you to have a high school degree as opposed to a college degree. I could see if you are talking about working at Wendys that they wouldn't give a s***, but otherwise, they'll take the college degree.

QUOTE (chwhtsox @ Feb 5, 2010 -> 05:48 AM) I've done it but I was in prison at the time so I didn't have much of a choice... I'm curious...what for?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 11:40 PM) All I can say is, seek out some very happily married couples, and ask them how they met, how their first few dates went. Just as you are saying this isn't the movies where a guy chases a woman for months and months, I can counter with the same thing. This isn't the movies where everyone falls in love at "first sight." People simply aren't always that good at understanding what qualities will attract them to someone else. People fall in love after knowing eachother for a time, or after struggling through a few dates....it happens in all different manner of ways. Just ask an older married couple....I guarantee you that you will hear some doozies... I think you guys are both right. Love at first site doesn't happen, but I think if you pursue them it is just more getting them in line with dating you. They already know they like you, it is more a matter if they want to get in a relationship with you, see you long-term, etc, etc. And of course that is just one situation and every situation is different. If you meet the chick at the bar and ask her out it is different than you knowing a girl for 2 years and asking her out.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Feb 4, 2010 -> 10:16 AM) Shes def a hammond and a ES girl, moved to hammond from the ES her freshman year to go to gavit, still parties on the ES. I wouldnt doubt you know her and i wouldnt doubt you have a crush on her/messed around with her, seems like everyone but me has So are you saying she's a bit of a "slut"?

A toe-tap isn't a bad thing people. Quite a few major league hitters have one and use them as a timing mechanism.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2010 -> 07:40 AM) Of most of the people I know who are married, alot were before 25, and I would say half are divorced if not more and several feel "stuck." Make sure you are doing it for the right reason and not just because you are supposed to or because everyone else is doing it. Anytime you are in a relationship before starting your career and getting settled in, you need to really really be with that person for an extensive period of time. You are in a spot in your life that a lot around you will change, including yourself and those changes may align you to not see eye to eye or be a good fit for your partner (even though you were at a point in time). It is kind of like friends, some you keep forever, others come and go as you and their interests change. I'd say if you get married before starting your career and doing it for a bit, you need to make sure you've spent a long long time with that person and are incredibly comfortable with them and are willing to role with whom they are and what they ultimately do. If you don't start seeing that person until you are in your career, you tend to find things faster about who someone is because both people are closer to being in that range where they are where they are. Plus at that point, you've also probably had quite a bit of experience in relationships and have a better feel for what you like/don't like, etc. In short, there isn't really a time-table and rock, I don't know why I'm replying to you about this, more for Beastly I suppose. It just depends on the circumstances and it is very individualized. Just don't ever get married because you think well, I spose its time to or I have an ultimatum. Do it because you want to and if you don't think you want to with that girl (and you feel you are ready to get married) move on and don't be a dick about it (ie, drag her along...cause it'll suck for you and it'll suck for her when you end up wasting all that time).

QUOTE (The Beast @ Feb 2, 2010 -> 01:11 PM) And then there were the guys that had to stop because the woman that they love or used to love wants a restraining order or calls him a stalker all of the time... IF you are able to pursue, it means there is interest. She might just not be 100% behind it at the time. It is not like you are going around following some girl you don't know or doing creepy that is going to get you a restraining order. It is talking and joking around and doing sweet things to a girl that you are acquaintances with to get her to think of you in another manner possibly.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 2, 2010 -> 12:49 PM) I know Jason, but why shouldn't you be able to go to the best school you can get into? California has some killer schools. Not all states have schools like that. You think Kentucky has the quality of state schools that California does? You know what it would cost for me to go to UC Berkely? Being from out of state? $33k/year. I went to a state school for my undergraduate degree, which I have about $15k in debt for. Then I went to law school. It was $17k per year or something, for 4 years (I went part time, night program). That's about $85k in debt I have. For educating myself. Are you going to stand there and tell me it should cost me EIGHTY FIVE f***ING GRAND to educate myself properly? But technically, isn't part of the reason you went to law school to make additional money? And that money, long-term would be well worth the initial costs? I know I personally would love to go back for my MBA, but the question I always ask is it worth me spending the 80-100K in tuition to go into one of the programs I want. And when I ask that question, I'm basically saying, will I make up for that payment in salary. Hell, I clearly don't know how much the state system varies. But I think we should be focused on getting people into schools and helping them and as long as they have an option, ultimately it is up to them whether they want to take on additional money to go somewhere else. And I say this, because there is no f***ing way I'm about to let my money pay for someone whose racked up a 100K in student loans to get some ridiculous degree that adds little value to our society. If they want to spend there own money for that degree, awesome, but I ain't about to pay for there student loans.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 2, 2010 -> 12:23 PM) It's not just about being responsible. The costs are insane at this point. $30k a year for school? That's insane. I'm sorry, but going to college should not cost you a similar amount to buying a home. The Obama's do have a personal history with this issue. I have heard him say for a very long time, their student loan payments were far greater than their mortgage payments. That simply shouldn't be the case. These universities should not be entitled to build up annuities in the hundreds of millions or even billions while charging students outrageous tuitions to try and contribute to the economy and have a successful career. It's reaching the point where it is backfiring. Students are recognizing the market doesn't favor college grads enough to incur the debt and are choosing to enter lower-level jobs and work their way up through experience rather than academic merit. And while there is nothing wrong with that, we need to be educating our workforce more, not less. You don't need to go to a school that costs 30K per year. I went to a state school, paid under 1000 a semester (now prices have been raised and it is now about 2000 a semester), but that is a far cry from 30K a year and it is an affordable amount. Even if you go to a University, you wouldn't be more than 15K a year in tuition I'd imagine. Now there are living costs, but that is an entirely separate issue.

The girl might also be incredibly shy, etc. My fiance was a bit intimidated by me when I first made my advances (thinking in her head that we'd never work). But I'd call the relationship we got ideal and she's always shocked how it ended up working out, haha. And I should point out, I had known her for about a year and a half prior to making any advances as I was going out with another girl at the time and my current fiance was just a friend.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Feb 1, 2010 -> 09:44 PM) I don't mind getting a younger Josh Beekman at Center which he was drafted and groomed for. If that means Kreutz (and other guys old/still younger I.E. Hester) are gone for draft picks to help, then I would not mind at all. Of course that won't happen though. I gotta say I like the hire too, but what does this mean for Greg Olsen? In a Martz run offense, TE usually catch/see only about 40 balls receiving a season. (most of the time they are blocking in his scheme) I don't think Greg will be catching 60+ again next season, but hopefully it's enough to give him some touches since he is a very good match-up threat. Outside of Vernon Davis (who was raw and unproven), Martz has never had an above average Tight end. Now that he does, I assume like any really good offensive mind, he'll find ways to utilize it.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 1, 2010 -> 02:01 PM) They could have hired Martz a month ago. Obviously they struck out on every other option. I don't think so. I think they knew what they had in Martz, but wanted to see other potential options first. At the end of the day, I think once they found a candidate they really liked, they would have also interviewed Martz and it would have came down to one of them.

Very good for baseball. I assume he'll be getting at least 15M per year, probably more like a 10Yr 175M deal.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 31, 2010 -> 06:59 AM) at least it's not a yellow VW Bug with those flower rims. Could be worse. Thats his weekend car.

I'd be thrilled with Johnny Damon and I think Ozzie would be too. He fits the club more than Nick Johnson (or at least Ozzie's idea for the club) and would be a tremendous get. If we could ultimately get him for 5M with some incentives, I think the Sox will do that.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Jan 29, 2010 -> 03:00 PM) I don't know if I'd call it wasting, when it could be a huge money maker, and is absolutely ridiculous that it's illegal. I can see it raising money, but I also see all kinds of lawsuits going on within the courts if it did go through. I understand legalizing it means you generate taxes on it, but at the same time, I'm not a proponent of turning the US into Amsterdam. Also, once it is legal, prices will come crashing down, so how much are you really going to be saving in taxes? People will be able to grow the s*** themselves for pete sakes, they'll buy the seeds for dirt cheap and get taxed on that.

Seriously, this is what people waste their time on.