Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:40 AM) .329 and a .688 OPS in the 4 seasons leading up to his 2 good months last year. There's really no reason for me to believe we'll get anything better than a .325-.330 OBP out of him which is especially dreadful since his ISO will be well under .100. It's a stupid f***ing trade and a tremendous waste of money. Plenty of teams have won with Juan Pierre at the top? Really? He's been on one team that made the playoffs with him as their leadoff hitter for a full season and that was '03 when he was 25. He has a grand total of 7 playoff PA since 2003. I don't really care what his ISO will be at the top of the order. I care about the things he can do. Is he perfect, absolutely not. Ideal, no, but for the amount the Sox are paying him this is a solid move. Last season he was much much better than he had been the last couple of years and he did make some minor changes to his swing mechanics and approach and they apparently paid off big. The stat outlook on these type of guys are always much much more negative than the reality. He isn't an all star, nor is he one of the 10 or 15 best leadoff hitters, but he's adequate, and will be one of the few guys on the squad capable of hitting for a high average, which is a nice change. There are a lot of things Juan can do that won't show up on the stat sheet.

State of the Pen: With Putz In, Carrasco and Dotel Out, It's a Wash for the Sox Along with not being able to hit or field very well, the White Sox bullpen was a mess much of 2009. With Bobby Jenks proving unreliable, Scott Linebrink buckling halfway through, and the rest minus Matt Thornton and DJ Carrasco just sorta being there, it needed to be addressed this off-season. So far, it's one talented-but-injured guy in (JJ Putz), and two less-talented-but-healthy-and-equally-effective-relievers out (Carrasco, Octavio Dotel)....The Whole Story, Including Our Depth Chart

I don't necessarily think he'll put up the numbers he did last year over a full season, but if he did, it would be an absolutely stellar move. I would hope we could get a .345-.350 OBP out of him, but that is probably me being greedy. We will get a great base-runner who will hit for an average (albeit with mainly singles), but that can be a nice thing. More importantly, the club can at least shield Beckham from the leadoff spot. Pierre might not be great, but plenty of teams have won with him at the top of the order. For the money and given the Sox options, I'm okay with this deal.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:18 AM) As long as we don't give up Hudson, Hynick or Santos and Pierre is in LF, i'll cool off about the move. I don't think he's an ideal option, i think Pierre has some tremendous holes in his game, he fits a need though, and i understand the thought behind it. Now, get me a lefty-power bat and a lefty-power arm. Hynick is a solid option as a long guy or spot starter, but that is it. I'm okay giving him up. Santos I'd hope we'd keep, but the odds of him breaking camp on the 25 man roster are slim and at that point its 50/50 whether he'll get through waivers or not. I tend to think he would, but who knows.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:17 AM) Santos is out of options, so if he doesn't make the team, he'll probably get claimed anyway. He's still too raw so it is unlikely that anyone would keep him on a major league roster for an extended period of time.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:14 AM) As others have mentioned, the only way I get excited about this deal is if Pierre's in LF and we obtain a solid DH. I fully believe that is the clubs plan.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) Barring a problem with that screw in his elbow, I'll bet Jenks has one of his best years in 2010. I actually agree with you. I think Jenks is going to have a tremendous season.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 03:07 PM) Brad Lidge is guaranteed $24.5M over the next 2 season and Bobby Jenks only $7.5M-$8M. How do you make that at all palatable? I'm taking my chances with Jenks. Ya, I figured there is no way to make it work, but since Levine said the Phils might be interested I figured they'd have to deal Lidge and eat up significant cash. No way I can see the Phils eating enough cash to make that a valuable deal.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) I sure hope he does. I just think to rely on this happening and him being the key aquisition to make the playoffs might result in a lot of unhappy sox fans. The key things to consider is the following: Quentin will hopefully be healthy and if that happens he'll be a hell of a lot more productive - Beckham will have a full year under his belt - Rotation will be much better - Pen should be solid; Pena, Linebrink, and Jenks are better than they've shown and a healthy Putz would be a nice upgrade - Teahen should be a better hitter than Getz - Rios has a history of being significantly better than shown - Ramirez will be much better defensively and in year three much more consistent Obviously all of the above might not happen, but I expect most of the above will happen and that alone makes the Sox a hell of a lot better of a club.

The Phils have been mentioned as one of the teams that could use an upgrade at closer. They have Lidge, who has great stuff and a proven track record of successes and failures. He has a great arm and if the Sox are able to get a solid prospect and cash from the Phils, it could turn into a solid deal. What does everyone else think? And I note that the Phils would have to agree to send a s***-ton of money the Sox way, since Lidge makes like 11.5M a year through 2011. Or lets hypothetically say the Sox dealt Jenks and Linebrink to the Phils for Lidge, cash, and a good prospect. Sox get a few more million that can go to signing a DH, get a good prospect, and still have a guy that has all of the stuff to be a great closer.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) But he is coming off 4 awful seasons in the NL -- .329 OBP and .688 OPS, fun -- and put up a .263/.317/.324/.641 over his final ~300 plate appearances last year. I'm not willing to give up a player and pay $6M-$8M over 2 years on a bad baseball player just because he's fast and hits singles. I agree, 6-8M is way too much if that is what it ultimately takes. If you can get him in the 3-4M range, than I could see it making a bit of sense, given the Sox financial restraints. It goes hand in hand with a supposed Crisp signing, it wouldn't excite me, but in combination with a good DH signing, I'd say the team would be in a great position to contend.

QUOTE (chisox2334 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) vlad isnt coming to southside folks. ozzie wants dh that can play the field and he dosent fit the description. sorry If Matsui could play the field, so could Vladdy. Not regularly, but you could always stick him in left in a pinch. I wouldn't recommend it, but with an off-season of rest he'd be capable of playing 1-2 times a week in the field.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:38 PM) To ignore how poorly Rios hit would also be a mistake. He definitely hit real bad and I kind of think Kenny would take a do-over if he had to do it all over, but the club has a lot of Rios left under contract and historically speaking he's been an above average right fielder and if you moved those stats to left and factored in his defense, he's an above average centerfielder. I hate writing a guy off over a horrendous two month stretch. The Sox have tapes and he's had a lot of major league success. Rios will figure it out.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:31 PM) Then that is a very mediocre offseason. One really good and one really bad. Especially considering how bad we need offense. A Cy Young Award winner and an all star that is on the right side of 30. I'd call those pretty darn good moves for an off-season. Sure, Kenny has more things to do, but to ignore what happened at the deadline would be a mistake. Those moves were made a lot more for 2010 and beyond than they were for 2009.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) Well, aside from the whole '2 week' thing he's right. I know you'd disagree with me, but if the Dodgers picked up most of his salary he wouldn't be that bad of a move. I realize you can't stand Pierre and that stats point him out as pretty worthless and I'd agree with a lot of it, but given the Sox needs they could do a lot worse than giving up nothing for Pierre (if they could get him like that) and pay him maybe 3-4M a season. He had a very good season last year, but the big thing that kills Juan is that he just doesn't get on base at a high enough clip, nor is he a good defensive player. He's a little bit better, more consistnet version of Pods, and if the Sox get a solid DH that would be enough, but again, I'd think you could make a case that Crisp would again be the better get. That said, Pierre isn't coming off a serious injury (see Crisp) nor does he have the injury riddled past of a Pods.

So is this actually done?

What the heck?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 12:00 PM) Matsui is going to sign with the Angels. One year $6.5 million. Is that official?

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 11:59 AM) Sad that people picked Howland as a top 5 coach in the nation also. Have you seen the guys track-record? He built Pitt into a national top 15 program, turned UCLA back into a power-house (3 final four apperances in 4 years) and he's having a down season. UCLA should never be this bad though.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 11:20 AM) As Ed O'Bradavich said Greg Olson is the first player to actually play smaller and slower than they really are. The Aroma thing that made Lovie look bad was that they saw all of this in practice?????? Huh....why is he behind Bennet and Hester than? I think the coaching staff continues to show that they are unable to get players to progerss as they mature and make sound decisions about both personnel and game managment. That last series was an embarassment. What does Pep Hamilton do? Completely agree.

He will definitely be one of the many DH candidates the Sox consider. There are serious concerns around his health though, much like Carlos Delgado, who could be another option, despite the fact that Delgado hates Chicago.

That would make the BoSox rotation a lot stronger, imo. Lackey is a good bet to be a pretty solid #2 for a long-time. The money and years are too much for a guy that has had some nagging arm issues the past couple seasons and we know he isn't a true #1, but Boston can afford to overpay a starter.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) I'll gladly take Putz at $3M over Carrasco at ~$1.5M, the potential upside between the 2 isn't even close. Somehow I'm not too broke up about losing the 33 year old coming off a career year as a mop-up man. It stinks losing him because he had a lot of value as a long-reliever. However, you dont' want him pitching in the 7th/8th innings of games you are winning and if he is getting 2-3M he's going to get into those games and I think that would be a mistake. DJ will be able to find a job and start for some team and I wish him the best cause he was valuable on the south-side in his role for a great price, but now the Sox can turn things over to Hynick or Hudson or someone else and I'm fine with that. The mop-up guy shouldn't be the reason why your team does or doesn't make the playoffs, imo. Putz at 3M could end up being a guy that really helps your pen be lights out and that would have a ton of value.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 09:38 AM) jose arredondo, imo would be a great gamble (reclammation) looking for 2011. i players i have been looking at seems to be pitchers,. scott olsen (before he signed with the nat), matt capps, even miller.... i just thought of this a an inexpensive way of getting the players who can help without giving up prospects. with ref to position players, is there any out there in the no tendered that tickles anybody fancy? A few people have mentioned Ryan Garko, but given the Sox needs, I just don't know if there are any great fits, outside of some of the catchers that were non-tendered (John Buck/Miguel Olivo). By the way, as always, good to see ya around LDF!!!

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 03:57 PM) Billick was saying during the game that you just dont know if that is on Cutler or if it is on Knox for running the incorrect route in that situation. We wont ever know unless they come out and say it, but it doesnt matter it goes on Cutlers record Cutler has kept his mouth shut for a while, but after almost every pick you see him over talking with one of his young wide-outs and explaining to him what he should do. Than you see the replay and you'll see the vast majority of the time the WR being talked to made the wrong cut. When I say that, I mean a WR needs to read the situation usually and cut one way or the other depending on where the defender is. Jay is going to throw the way he expects you to break and most of the time he's had his ugly picks, the WR has gone the other way. We saw it again countless times in todays' game. You also see him working to make things better and Knox is getting better and Arash looks like he could be pretty damn solid. Great body control and good hands from what I've seen in his limited action. Bout f***ing time he gets to play after Jay has lobbied for him all damn season.