Chisoxfn

And ignoring the lefty Rodrigeuz we received is poor too. Dan, your statement was wrong, hehe. Not often I disagree with you but this is one of those times. Of course, Its starting to look like you were right about ole Chris Young afterall.

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ May 22, 2009 -> 01:00 AM) or short and sweet, call him a p****. You guys know how f***ing stupid that would be for the organization. No player would ever even want to listen to a sales pitch from the Sox since they'd have to think they'd get blasted if they said no.

Hudson did have question marks and the Sox liked Getz. Like it or not they did, although I'd have played him in CF. Sox also might not have wanted to give up draft picks, imo, as I think they value rebuilding the system right now. Abreu had no spot, otherwise they would have picked him up and I'm sure if there were pitchers or leadoff hitters out there we'd have seen the Sox go after em (Hudson was the only one and while we all wanted him, at a point last year he himself wondered if he'd ever play again). Peavy is a totally different fit and someone who isn't just a one year option but a guy you build around. I think the point is Kenny doesn't want to tie up his payroll with meh players, he wants to get a high impact star in an area where the Sox don't have any in-house candidates to fill it.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 06:01 PM) Why's that? Javy's doing a great job for the Braves. Gilmore, until recently, was doing horrible. Flowers is having a good, not spectacular season. I think Atlanta has to be pretty happy about that trade so far. Given the financial savings and talent the Sox acquired, it was a tremendous deal and easily KW's best selling move of his career (Danks isn't a sell move and Floyd is still open but if he does what he did last year for his career than that is an incredible sell). Rodriguez and Gilmore are very raw talents, Gilmore with the ability to be an all star 3rd baseman (if he gets everything on track and he's extremely young and raw) and than Flowers is a f***ing machine at the plate. Nice swing too so he might just be one of those statisticians dreams, solid average, tons of walks, 30+hr power, OPS and OBP machine. And I'm sure the Braves are happy because javy is a darn good NL pitcher.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 06:10 PM) BTW, I just want to thank everyone for a fantastic day on this board. I might get fired from work cause of lack of productivity, but just wanted to say thanks. Ya it was fun. I had a 2 hr meeting in the middle of hte day but otherwise didn't get a damn thing done.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:53 PM) Unless the Sox find an extra 22 million they are able to spend in '13, the deal is dead. I'll say it a last time. All the AL-NL, family talk is all garbage. This deal all came down to guaranteed money, and Peavy and his agent didn't get what they wanted. The package the Sox sent over was less than impressive. It was going probably going to be Poreda, Richard, Ely, and Lessman. If I was a Padre fan, that is not an acceptable package for an ace pitcher. However, it clearly is the best the Padres can do. Why? Because no one is beating down the door of Kevin Towers given the fact you have to pay Jake Peavy 22 million dollars four years from now. It's not a smart business decision, and one the Sox aren't going to be a part of. Do you know that was what the package was? Also, I heard that the Sox did consider making adjustments that would have allowed them to in a sense pick up an extra year on the contract but that it dealt with deferrals and a restructuring and at this time Peavy wouldn't accept it so it doesn't necessarily mean the Sox weren't going to accept an extra 22M, plus its really an extra 18M (cause 4M is getting paid either way).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:40 PM) Someone needs to hire Kenny's speechwriter because you know that isn't what he was thinking when Peavy turned them down. I'm stunned and impressed by those comments. Flat out impressed. Thats an organization that still wants this guy and I think they'll try to make something happen.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:21 PM) I'd do the same damn package for Oswalt. I wouldn't, unless the PTBNL were Broadway and McCulloch or Egbert or something. But if it was Hudson and another solid guy, too much. I think Oswalt is nearing the decline.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:19 PM) I'm sure KW and JR were in full recruiting mode yesterday and today. For whatever reason, the White Sox still aren't a preferred destination for major league players. Which in a way makes no sense. They have a lot of guys with great reputations on the team. Chicago is always voted favorite road city. There have been ringing endorsements from well respected guys like Thome and Griffey. Dye, Buerhle, Konerko walked away from more money elsewhere to be here. It pisses me off so many want to play for the Cubs but not the Sox. The funnier part is I guarantee if you go around the league, more former players have better things to say about the Sox than the Cubs (ie, out of guys that played with one of the teams). A lot of people leave the Cubs and realize what a nightmare there fans can be. I think in Peavy's case it had very little to do with the org, in fact, I think its respectable that we even got close getting him here since he had issues with other premiere teams in baseball. Our organization as a whole treats guys tremendously and the only reason I would see someone favoring other places is due to location (ie, closer to family or where they lived), weather (Chicago as opposed to West Coast) or spring training location (you live in FL so you want to be on a team that trains there). I can't see someone not coming because the Sox aren't a good team, afterall, they are one of the winningest teams in all of baseball since 1990.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:15 PM) I'm in the same boat as you, especially since he's pitching well this year (is hurt now though?)... but it's a blueprint of a FA year for a pitcher, get a few of the big market teams vying for you and than lay a modified Pavano on them I'd much rather go for Lackey, whose been a horse most of his career. I don't put him in the Santana/Halladay mold, but he's pretty f***ing good. And I'm not really stating I'd go that long-term with Lackey either. I would never go more than 4 years on a big money contract for a pitcher. If your paying 4 or 5 years for a young pitcher, understandable as its not as much money or a deal that will cripple you, but in a big money contract, never more than 4 years and preferably three.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ May 20, 2009 -> 07:02 PM) Bigger fluke season: 2008 Gavin Floyd or 2007 Fausto Carmona? Gavin's wasn't a fluke season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:11 PM) Bedard is a FA at the end of this offseason. Webb has a club option this offseason that is sure to be picked up unless he dies. Bedard has too many health risks for the Sox to give longterm cash too. I freaking love him when healthy but no way.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:11 PM) Stop making sense. KW said he's been working on this for 11 months, gets an agreement and all Peavy has to say is no for it all to be for nothing. I've always wondered that when they trade guys with no trades. I think the only explanation is just above every player will move if you make it attractive enough. Ya, but you can't go to Peavy until something is done because in all fairness, the Sox are going to have to sell him on the fact and so many other things. Plus you don't want to constantly bother Peavy or really get too involved unless it is serious. I'm sure the Pads told Kenny there was a chance and if they could reach things than you could talk to Jake and try to swing something. It didn't work, no biggie.

This has to be the most active, non game, one day thread in site history.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) Time to root for the Jays to tank and make Doc available. Other than that, who is there available that is worth pursuing? Bedard? When does King Felix hit FA? Lackey isn't getting traded. Haren? Webb over the offseason? Doc ain't a guy you trade for unless you are in full contend mode right now. He's older and just not going to be in his prime for that much longer. If you give up a ton of guys, given the clubs current make-up, its for someone that you'll have at there prime through the existence of there current contract or the new contract you offer (in the case you get a guy that is due for an extension, you obviously have to get him extended, imo).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:06 PM) I have difficulty buying that the D-Backs are going to go in to dumping mode after their run 2 octobers ago. Seriously, go look at their roster...don't they have to be better than this? Absolutely they should be better, unfortunately for them they aren't.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:04 PM) The D-Backs extended Haren through 2012. I'd offer a similar package, don't know if the Dbacks would bite, but Haren is freaking legit and that contract is much better.

QUOTE (OilCan @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) Someone commented way, WAY earlier on Roy Oswalt... He's 31 years old, going to be 32 in August. His current salary is $14 mil this year. His current contract situation: (quote from link http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=49841) Oswalt, who could have tested free agency after the 2007 season, will earn $13 million in each of the first two years of the contract. His salary moves up to $14 million in 2009, $15 million in 2010 and $16 million in 2011. He has a complete no-trade clause and a $2 million buyout of a $16 million club option for 2012. The scouting staff of the CWS can give you a more, unbiased opinion than I can. I just feel that he is starting the twi-light of his career, IMHO. Oswalt is too old to fit into the plans, imo. Haren or Brandon Webb would be better fits, but again, I say that from the Sox perspective and have gotten no indication that they'll be leaving the Dbacks.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) So you start thinking of guys he's targeted in the past. Carl Crawford could be a possibility, even though Tampa has a surplus of pitching prospects. Crawford would be an excellent fit, but would the Rays sell? I don't know if we have as intriguing of a package to offer them since they have a stellar system and probably don't want to lose face after making a world series run. I'd f***ing love a guy like Ryan Zimmerman but that won't happen.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:13 PM) Did Dan Haren and/or Miguel Cabrera ever sign extensions? Haren would be a good fit. Miggy signed an extension and thoughts are the Tigers would have to unload it, but I don't think they do it while they are competing, not to mention, I dont' think they just make a deal with the Sox that easily. I think Miggy averages close to 20M a year and I still think given the amount of hitting prospects the Sox have that the only position spot I make a big name trade for is the OF, more specifically cf or a front line leadoff hitter. Otherwise I think it will be a frontline pitcher as that is the department we lack in.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:12 PM) That's the thing...a strong farm system for the Sox means more trades for established players. KW has, and always will be, that type of GM. I think it's great, especially with our history of developing players for the big leagues as poor as it is. I still think he will also target certain guys as the players he wants to keep and will be very reluctant to give up those guys. Beckham and Flowers are two guys specifically and Danks might fall in that mode simply due to the family connection and that fact that the older Bro is untouchable. And if we have chips and the ability to take on money, its a major plus. This also looks decent from the perspective that if we want to sell, I'd have to imagine there would be teams out there willing to give up something decent for Dye, etc. Maybe not a Poreda, but a Richards like prospect?

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:07 PM) Do you mean "make it" like Lance Broadway has made it, or "make it" referring to either Poreda or Richard pitching successfully and not embarrassing the ballclub, like Broadway? I mean, pitching successfully. Barring injuries, I am fairly confident that both of them will be quality relievers for some period of there career at the very least and that they are valuable chips.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) I'll stand by my statement that by the time this deal would have been up, one of Poreda/Richard/Hudson would put up better numbers in the AL than Peavy. To me, even if we traded all three of those guys, I could still list out 5 guys that would remain in the system with top 100 prospect value and another 5 guys with the potential to reach that group. And this is before we have a s***ton of selections. I'm so proud of what has gone on since the organization overhauled our system, namely bringing in Buddy Bell Current Top 100 group (or close to it): Flowers Beckham Danks Allen Viciedo Potential: Carter Leesman Omogrosso Shelby (might be stretching here) Upchurch (again, so raw its hard to say) Gilmore (raw, but I've heard multiple scouts freaking rave about this guy) Nathan Jones (hard to put him here cause he's got a low probability of making it, but stuff wise, WOW, WOW, WOW...that combo of FB/Curve sets him up to be a potential DOMINANT reliever) So while I might be overstating some things, thats still pretty impressive when you consider your excluding Hudson/Poreda/Richard from that list already and you already have Quentin/Ramirez/Fields/Getz at the major league level (not that Getz/Fields are in the same breath as Quentin/Ramirez (just given last years production).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:02 PM) I'd be shocked if KW ever talks to the Padres about Peavy again. This is a pretty embarrassing public rejection from Peavy. Maybe for Peavy but I don't think it looks bad to the Sox. If I were them I'd spin it as saying we tried and got closer than the Yanks/Red Sox/Angels did (although they didn't have deals in place) and to me thats a f***ing compliment. A big compliment. I'm once again very proud of our organization. They went out of there f***ing way to put together a massive deal and we clearly are one of the big players (maybe not in the FA market) but on the trade front every season and history shows under this leadership group that ballsy things might just happen. Its why I've always backed KW, despite at times ripping into him for being too cocky at times (but that cockiness also makes him good).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:00 PM) Yep, I'm actually excited by the effort KW made today. KW deserves huge kudos for the improvements we've made to our farm system. Let's hope he makes some quality veteran for prospects trades in the coming months, as that's been his biggest downfall as a GM. I also hope that Kenny and his people do the right job and invest heavily in this draft, especially since many teams will be on budget constraints which means a team with some extra cash to spend could really really benefit by getting a great crop of potential. And for whomever said the 4 guys the Sox sending have a 2% of suceeding I'd call BS. I would be stunned if at least 1 of Richard/poreda didn't make it, let alone whomever the other two guys were.