Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:36 PM) He JUST openly said he'd rather retire than come off the bench. Well enough said than, LOL. I just want to find a way to get value for Deng cause he clearly doesn't fit in the Bulls current system. The problem is he doesn't have value. Hinrich is a better player than Deng right now, imo. Sad but true. It sucks too cause in the right system, Deng's a borderline all star, imo. Key word being borderline.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:16 PM) Signing AI would be a bad move for anyone I'd say, if you expect him to be a bench player and not complain about it. I'd say he'd only be happy as a Knick where he could throw up as many shots as he wants (if they do a sign and trade for Nate Robinson). Thats why you tell him that, if he signs than he's obviously okay with being in that position. If your honest with him and frank and could sell him on a chance to compete for a title (not saying the Bulls could sell him on that, but someone probably could), than I see no reason why he wouldn't be willing to come off the bench. Plenty of stars in the twilight of there careers have made that adjustment for the shot at a ring.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:27 PM) This is 100% true I also have a best buddy that is a Broncos fan and all he was telling me was how Cutler was the 2nd coming of the Messiah (his nickname for Elway). We watch all the games together at the bar so I've seen probably 25 of Cutlers games and all I can say is just how thrilled I am and how pissed he is. Clearly that isn't any way of saying who won the deal because I'm no NFL expert nor is he, but I will tell you that the Bears have a guy that they've never ever had in the history of there organization at the QB position. Next up the Bears will have to give him a big f***ing contract, in the neighborhood of 100M so hopefully the McCaskeys are ready to shell out. It probably won't happen now, but it might happen during the season. The question is how everything regarding the uncapped year next year will effect things.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) 1.) Off-season is not over. The #1 Wr may not be on the roster right now. 2.) Jay Cutler will not be behind Orton's old line. The line looks to be significantly upgraded. 3.) Take your pick: Kyle Orton plus Running backs by Committee or Jay Cutler and Matt Forte. Denver's RB's will have to deal with extra men in the box, while Forte will spread the Field for Cutler and Cutler for Forte. 4.) Greg Olson 5.) I expect with coaching changes, the defense in Chicago will improve. Cutler has never had a defense behind him. Denver will be improved on D, but they have a longer way to go than the Bears do. Don't forget a healthy Kevin Jones and a nice change of pace guy in Garret Wolfe and Adrian Peterson.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:21 PM) The Broncos are using a RB by committee aproach which is exactly what the Pats did. All of the Bronocs RB's last season also averaged above 4 yards a carry, so they were still successful, before they all got hurt. No one in NFL circles will tell you that the Broncos had a good ground game or that anyone at all schemed for it. Everyone worked on defending the pass and doing whatever they could to do such and as a result, the Broncos poor backs were able to put up above average numbers. I've heard that from Dan Reeves, and a s***ton of random people on NFL network.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) Orton also had a 90.2 QB rating before he got hurt in the 1st 8 games of last season FWIW. If he's healthy, and he gets back to where in mechanics where back then (and not the Orton we saw in the 2nd half of last season), I think he can put up some real good numbers in Denver's system with better weapons to throw to and better protection. I've watched enough Broncos and Bears games to tell you there is no comparing the two QB's.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:18 PM) This morning on the radio the old G.M. from Denver (Ted Sunquist?) was explaining that the Broncos did not even return phone calls to at least 5 teams, one being the Jets and that the thought was that Denver could have gotten more. McDaniels liked Orton over Campbell............. Also the Bears pro personnel guy did all of the leg work on this and had been in contact with Denver since day one and used his connections to seal the deal, I forget his name, before other teams even sent in offers. To me it sounds like Denver is a tad confused currently. Gabriel? He's widely regarded as one of the best personell guys in the business.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) Orton put up a 79.6 QB rating last season with a worse O-Line and worst WR's to throw to. Is it crazy to expect he'll improve that number, and Cutler's will go down slightly? I believe the Broncos WR are better, but how much? This is an interesting post from another forum I frequent that might have you think twice

On a sidenote, if the Bulls lose Ben Gordon, I want them to sign Iverson to a contract and let him be a huge player off the bench. I don't know if AI would agree to that, but I'd be okay with it if he was. I really want Ben Gordon back and if the Bulls can find a way to bring him back while still being able to make a max offer at one of the big crop of Bosh/Amare/Wade/LBJ, than do it.

QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) There was an article in the Denver Post suggesting that Pat Bowlen created this train wreck by hiring an inexperienced coach without having a GM in place. I tend to agree. Tough lesson for them to learn. But, good news for us. I've read quite a few things saying that Bowlen has been trying to spin spin spin his mistake because things just weren't handled right all the way around. Cutler obvioulsy could have done things better, but if you look at any great player traded in or near his prime, its because they were mad, thats why they get dealt. We took advantage of the situation and I don't believe Cutler has a history of being a crybaby. In fact, he's firey vocal guy that talks s*** on the field and backs it up and I think Bears fans will fall in love with him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:45 PM) This is the NFL. You can't just look at whether or not a team let someone walk on its own, you have to look at the salary issues as well. Cutting Pace for this year saved the Rams $6 million in cap space. That's more than he'll cost the Bears by a fair amount I believe. And the Bears started off the FA period with significantly more cap room than the Rams had. And the Bears had a need where the Rams are still a few years away and are looking to develop in the future so Pace wasn't a good fit.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:27 PM) Its hard to believe he is going to be very good this year when St. Louis had one of the worst OLines in the league and were happy to let him walk. I dunno how much he has left in the tank, but I think best bet is he is decent this year. Anything more than that would be a surprise imo. Ummm...it was strictly a financial move, same with Holt. It happens in the NFL when you get older. I've seen so many people (prior to the Bears making this move) talking about how good of a season Pace had last year and that he was a borderline probowl LT. Was he what he was, absolutely not, but he's still above average. I've also heard this from former offensive lineman during radio interviews who I would think know more than me and you about being a good tackle. Pace could never play with the Bears due to an injury, but if he's healthy he'll be a significant upgrade over anything the Bears have had at the LT position since Big Cat was in his prime.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:06 PM) Maranelli and Lovie make the defense better or Mike Shanahan is the coach in 2010 Definately.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:04 PM) I said I thought both teams won, I liked Denvers return better though. Both teams got what they wanted out of it. Most of the response has made it seem like I am against what the Bears have done and I think Denver fleeced them. Which I don't. What I meant by that is, if that's how you want to view this then I will be more than happy to just bash on the Bears and Cutler if no one is going to look at it both ways. Its not a threat, but why would I continue to say I liked both ends of the deal if I am being made to look like I am some huge Denver/McDaniels supporter? Do you understand what I am saying here now. I understand you and I think as a whole we both see things pretty similarly. I lean to the Bears if anyone being the winner but I like the deal from both perspectives aside from the fact that I think the Broncos made a mistake in putting themselves into the position where they had to trade Cutler because they were a good RB away from having an elite offense.

Sal Pal said that the Broncos had 4 to 5 teams who made serious offers. He also said that if there was anything the Bears were most concerned with in regards to Cutler were alcohol problems and immaturity and they discussed these things with Hillmeyer, Bennett, Williams. The other thing they were concerned with were in regards to how he could deal with immense expectations.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) What is the deal with Marvin Harrison? Most experts think he's lost too much to be able to get open consistently in the NFL.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) You're right Cutler does make other people better with his presence, but do you think the Bears are going to change their offense now and throw the ball over 600 times a season? They still need to help out the offensive line, which they are trying to do with adding Pace. How about the defense though? They have gotten progressively worse, that's another thing they need to address. Bennett could very well become better with Cutler at QB now, but I don't think adding Cutler changes his talent level. Do you think that now because Cutler is here he is all of the sudden going to get it? Maybe, well see how that plays out. They need to fill some more holes before they become super bowl contenders, but they have a nice start so far. Look at teams with great QB's and you'll see that in general they are able to turn out more good WR's as a whole. The Colts with Peyton, Denver with Elway, Packers with Favre, etc. The Bears offense will adjust, look at Turners history with a good QB (Kramer was the closet to good and he had Conway and Graham being the only duo in Bears history to have 1000 yard seasons in the same year). This guy is a perfect fit for Turners system, imo. Will the Bears throw 40 times a game, hell no, they have a great RB too, and the duo should work phenomenally over the next few years. This is a tremendous deal for the Bears and as far as the Broncos are concerned they f***ed up to piss off Cutler, but I fully believe they got fair value. Both teams won, but I give Chicago a bigger win given the overall need and the intangibles of the trade (ie, the statement made and the state of the franchise) and the overall fact that the Broncos as a whole were stupid to piss of a potential elite QB. Cutler could end up failing miserably and I'd still say it was a brilliant deal for the Bears given the circumstances. Clearly I hope he goes on to win a number of superbowls and I think he might do exactly that in time.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) What are we arguing? You said you wanted people to pay attention to you or you would show how the Bears are totally f***ed. I'm just waiting to see that threat come to life. So far you said Cutlers a crybaby, its windy in Chicago, we dont have Brandon Marshall, and Daniels 2 years in NE proves he will turn anyone into Tom Brady. I still dont see how the Bears have f***ed themselves in that scenario. Cutler's Qb rating is 7 points higher than the GREATEST season a Bears QB has had since that stat was in place. I want to see this flip side argument that you keep threatening to bring up. Thats all. Call it Bears fan enlightenment. For those saying Cutler's a crybaby lets just say this. Cutler is the face of the Broncos and his head coach is fired. Cutler is upset but stays quiet. Broncos do tell Jay that the OC will stay there, but than he gets fired. Cutler continues to stay quiet. The Broncos than hire a young coach whose going to bring in a whole new system, Cutler again stays quiet. Than the Broncos try to trade him behind his back and Cutler gets pissed. Pretty freaking understandable, especially after hearing McDaniels talk. I hope he falls flat on his face.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:49 PM) I think the Bears OL is significantly upgraded from last year already, especially if they're creative and wind up trying Pace out at RT Plus Cutler is more mobile and gets rid of the ball quicker than Kyle so that too could help improve the pass rush.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) The need to improve of the OL pronto...Pace is a good start even though he's best years are behind him,he can probably be better than avg... Last season Pace played at a near Pro Bowl level. Was he as good as everyone was used to no, but he was still a well above average LT. The only question with him is health, imo, and last year he was fairly healthy. If he does go down, the Bears have plenty of depth in Shaffer and Omilaye.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) Call me crazy to say that Kyle Orton could actually put up better numbers than Jay Cutler this upcoming season. And I'm basing that on; 1 - McDaniels will be a better offensive coach than Ron Turner 2 - The Broncos probably still have the better offensive line. 3 - The Broncos have better WR's. Cutler's a better QB no doubt, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him initally struggle a little learning a brand new scheme (although you could say the same for Orton also). Your not crazy, your f***ing crazy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:31 PM) After Tank Johnson, there is no way Angelo signs Matt Jones. No way. Some other team my give him another chance, but Jerry isn't going to take the chance to get burned again like that. Since Tank, the Bears took a chance on Marcus Harrison and were rewarded.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:22 PM) Sorry, Broncos won that deal. And I know you got your Bears glasses on right now, but take em off and maybe you'll see Griese and Plummer both had some very good seasons with the Broncos. The Bears mortgaged their future for a guy who is 17-20 as a starter and has never had a winning season. If you guys wanna keep ignoring what I have been saying about this I can easily turn this into a why this was a terrible deal for the Bears and how they are now f***ed. The Bears might have also turned Bennett into a potential first round pick with the acquisition. I realize he was a 3rd round pick, but all of a sudden he becomes a better WR (we'll have to see if it happens, but I think it will, plus Bennett has a lot of talent and was someone most draft experts raved about as being a guy with a lot of upside last year when the Bears drafted him). Greg Olsen might just make the leap to being an elite TE. Forte could prove to be an elite RB because of this (maybe not as explosive as Faulk or Tomilson, but in a similar range with an ability to get 1000 rushing and 1000 receiving yards). Hester might be able to make the jump from being a 750 yard WR to a 1000 yard WR with a QB who can make him better and best yet, good QB's can make good WR's great. It doesn't work the other way around, imo. I think great WR's can make a serviceable QB solid, but not a good QB great or elite. Plus the Bears now have a whole different image, expectation, and ora and there should be something said about that. In general, I think the Bears just found the solution to there WR problem and it involved getting a QB with the chance to be elite (and compare his numbers to all the greats and they are on par thus far) as he makes every WR on the roster better and will make it much easier for the Bears to develop or sign WR's (you don't think that the Bears didn't become an attractive place for any WR thats a FA, think again, cause if I'm a good WR, one of the first things I look at aside from money is whose throwing me the ball, and Cutler did a great f***ing job getting two above average WR's numbers). Oh and if the Bears get Plaxico, Jones or Holt, I'll go as far as saying that the Bears are legit superbowl contenders and that will be the first time I've said that in some time. Scoop Jackson said it best regarding this trade, basically indicated how important it is to the franchise and that it puts them as immediate favorites in the division but they still are a few holes short of being superbowl contenders but those holes can be addressed now or in a few years as the whole landscape of the franchise has been changed.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 11:07 AM) They probably only heard chopped up versions of his quote . His quote was not negative at all. I've heard mixed things, but I will say this, Urlacher better back the move or his ass will get shipped out. Before the trade he was the aging face of the franchise, now Jay Cutler is the franchise and if Urlacher doesn't get down with it he can get the f*** out. He's been a whining baby who hasn't played that great the past couple years whose constantly made excuses for the defense and thats not what a leader does.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) Matt Jones would be ideal, but would the Bears want to bring in a guy like that with his character issues? Probably not, but when you get a QB like Cutler, you got to surround him with guys and the Bears lost a couple picks and I believe FS has now become there #1 need. The Bears also still have a good group of vets that I think would keep a guy like Jones in line. Than again, the WR corps is very young so maybe it would be bad to put a guy like Jones around Hester/Bennett. Clearly Jones is the better long-term solution over Holt, but Holt is the steady veteran that could really be the glue. Jones was on pace for 1000 yards, is an elite athlete for a guy his size and seemed to be really finally come close to his potential and would be a badass target along with Olsen in the red zone (combine Olsen/Jones and Forte and you are talking about a ridiculous red zone offense, imo).