Chisoxfn

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 07:46 AM) You really think a bat is what they are after when there are two glaring holes in the rotation? One of those holes will be filled. I think they need to get a pitcher and Cfer as things stand right now. If you move Dye, than you need to get a pitcher, Cfer and another bat. That CF better fill the top of the order too. At that point I can live with giving Getz/Lillbridge/Nix the shot at 2B, Ramirez SS, and Fields/Viciedo/Betemeit 3B.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 06:34 AM) He mentioned a deal for Hudson wouldn't surprise him I can't fathom why we'd want to block Beckham for a few years.. Beckham could also play 3B with Viciedo in RF. Beckham could play SS with Ramirez sliding to CF. Or Hudson could move to CF. If the value is there and Hudson doesn't get as much as expected I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the move. However, if they do make that acquisition, I believe the Sox should look long and hard at moving Lillibridge or Betemeit. I expect the clubs priority to be a starting pitcher and CF and leadoff hitter. Plus they will move Dye I believe (potentially to get one of the parts to the left) and at that point you might see them pick up one of the FA bats (Abreu, Dunn, etc).

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:32 PM) Uh-oh Even Flowers is questioning his long term position at C. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,0,628845.story I think he just knows that he pretty much has two spots, catcher and DH. In the NL he only had one spot which means if he was stuck behind a good catcher he might just not be able to get the opportunity (such as in Atlanta, where he was stuck behind McCann). Now not only could he come up as a catcher, but if the club already had a top notch catcher, he could make an impact as a DH.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:20 PM) Good info SEAL... One great thing I hear? THe kid will do whatever it takes to get to the show. The bad? We're already talking DH...for a prospect? I want people who can prevent the other people from scoring runs as well. It's all good, I like the deal...I am not crying for joy, but am far from upset with this deal. It's very obvious only Lillebridge has a shot at coming to Chicago for next season and he is the guy I am very happy about getting...a great acqusition and he's going to win a lot of people over, a typical KW move...grab a talented player kinda out of favor with current club. We got Quentin, Thornton, Floyd for a song and dance...they have been awesome (at least so far)...what Lillebridge follow suit. Most scouts believe he'll be able to stick at catcher at the big league level. As long as he calls a good game and can hit, I have no problem with him being back there. You'll just have to make sure you have a nice defensive minded back-up. Plus, it isn't like we have the gold standard of catchers behind the plate anyway (in terms of throwing guys out).

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:12 PM) If this trade pans out Buehrle Floyd Danks Bailey Poreda/Richard will probably the most promising starting rotation since when Buehrle and Garland came up, and people like Dan Wright still seemed like they had potential. I don't care if it's unproven it'll be a blast to watch develop. It might be promising, but it won't come close to matching the production of the 05 Sox or even last years Sox rotation, imo. I would not be really comfortable with a raw and unproven Bailey as the 4th starter, especially since I'm expecting some set backs from Danks/Floyd. I think getting a veteran starter is a must at this point if you plan on competing because you can't expect to contend (key word being expect) when you have only one pitcher who has proven to be able to pitch consistently well at the big league level.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 07:50 PM) Well if he somehow goes for 2 year's, $9M per then I hope it's with the Sox. I've heard a couple baseball guys on talking about stuff and they believed Abreu would sign for under 10M. Hence my post a couple spots above where i indicated a 10M a year contract is something he'd probably jump at in a couple weeks. Right now he's asking for the moon, but those demands are going to come down hard and fast. And at 2 years with an option, I'd be all over Abreu. If you are talking 3 years and 12M per season, than I'd look at Dunn. These same baseball guys didn't peg Dunn getting more than 12M a season and had him bottoming in the 8-9M per year range. Bottom line they kept saying a lot of players that sit around are going to end up getting hurt and there will be at least a few solid size names that end up taking substantially less than anyone thought. Kenny should have money to jump at those guys, but you also hope he's able to still get deals on "his" guys.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 07:18 PM) Viciedo figures in here somewhere too as a power source for sure... I don't think Abreu (age, will want $45/3 years) and Dunn (too one dimensional for KW's new "vision") are the best fits. I think someone like Juan Rivera (if Dye is indeed traded) makes the best sense for 2 years in LF. In the end I could see Abreu taking 10m a year. He isn't going to get 15, in fact, he might be surprsied and only end up getting 8M per season. A lot of these players are going to figure out that unless you are the top market guy there is going to become a supply/demand issue and not enough teams are going to be dangling a ton of cash and free agent values will fall on those not regarded as top 5 FA's.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 07:13 PM) A guy Kenny has wanted in the past is Abreu and the Yankees didnt offer arbitration. I think we'll see the Sox trade Dye and than sign Abreu to a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option. The problem is a lot of these guys are going to be more bargain type of signings who don't sign for a while (when they finally realize the market they are expecting isn't out there). Abreu would be a stellar fit in LF and the 2 spot in the order. Sure he's on the downward portion of his career but he is still a well above average offensive player (who will post a very high OBP and hit for average).

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 06:25 PM) Gilmore isnt all that great, Morton is a much better prize. Gilmore was a first round pick in 07 and has put up very good numbers in the minors plus he's supposed to have all the tools necessary of a gold glove 3rd baseman. What isn't to like.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 06:07 PM) santos is a 20 year old reliever who was in rookie ball last year and had a pretty sick K rate...45 K in 29 IP in 2008 (to go along with 0 HR), and 35 K in 28 IP in 2007 A lefty too. Got to like it.

QUOTE (Sox It To Em @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 06:04 PM) Anyone know anything about Gilmore and Rodriguez? Are they legitimate prospects or throw-ins? Don't know have info on Rodriguez age, but he had 45 ks' in 29 innings of work (16 hits) in the Gulf Coast League. Those are some pretty sick periphs.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 06:00 PM) Gilmore is supposed to be a pretty solid player. This could be a really nice package. s***, Gilmore is a 20 year old third baseman who was a first round pick (compensatory round). He put up very good numbers in short season but struggled in the South Atlantic League.

Interesting, it now sounds like the Sox are getting up to 4 players.

More Details on the Trade: From BP: From BP: Gotta like how his power numbers and production have come at a pitchers park.

That is because Flowers is a guy who projects to hit anywhere from .270-.285 with 25+ HR's and a .360+ OBP. Those are very very good stats for a catcher. He has holes in his defensive game as well as a potentially slow swing but as a whole he's one of the best catching prospects.

Charlie Morton....potentially the 3rd player involved: Here's the scouting report per Braves-Nation.com

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) Morton may be the last player You hear this from a contact?

I'm curious as to what has happened with Lillibridge. Could he be a guy who benefited from PEDS? That is the one overall concern I have of hiim since his numbers have significantly declined. I'm also curioius as to what happened to his walk rate, which took a significant drop from his younger years (which is pretty rare to see). Overall he had a horrendous 2008 season which saw his stock plummet. Flowers on the other hand has hit everywhere he's been and continues to show better power numbers. He also has a tremendous walk rate for a player his age. I think your talking about a guy who could be a .270-.285 hitter with a .380+ OBP and 25-35 HR's from the catching position (which basically puts him at an all star type level).

Flowers would immediately jump in as the #4 prospect for me with Danks being a close 5th (I'd flip them, but FLowers has proven more at this point). Lillbridge would top Getz by one spot (Getz being more of a sure thing, but Lillbridge having more upside). Our system is really improving quickly, imo, and we still are going to end up moving Dye.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 04:11 PM) So the thread has been Gage'd a few times? Nope, I spent like 20 minutes splitting it and than someone else merged it and I'm not about to go back through that process, especially when I'm at work. For once I did good or so I think, haha.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 04:09 PM) A year of Dunn in LF followed by 3 or 4 at DH would be ideal, this is assuming of course that Dye is traded. I hate Dunn but I think he'd be a really good pickup if we moved Dye. He could slide in real nice as Thome's replacement. Plus I believe this team is setting itself up nicely for the next few years, although this year might be a bit interesting since there will be a heavier than usual reliance on unproven talent.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 04:02 PM) Can we please stop f***ing merging the threads. Goddamn. I split the entire thing and plan on resplitting it so that there is a closed thread with pretrade discussion and than a thread which starts from when the trade was first reported because I want to be able to jump straight into discussion based upon a finalized/near finalized deal.

Waiting to hear who the pitcher is, but Lillibridge is considered a solid SS prospect which is nice. He could also play 2B or CF and in general gives the Sox depth at a position where they need help. Just over a year ago he was a pretty highly touted prospect as well, not as toolsy as Escobar but some rated him on par as Escobar. Flowers is the key piece thus far as he is a legitimate catching prospect who would likely be major league ready as AJ starts to detiorate. So if the pitcher is someone with upside I'd be quite happy, especially given how the Sox have not given up any cash. THey are getting two legitimate starters, one who has the tools to be an above average leadoff hitter (albeit I wouldnt' make any guarantees of such) and a catcher with the potential upside to be a #5 hitter.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 04:04 PM) Kenny Williams has said he's going to cut payroll. Why do we expect them to not let the young guys compete for roster spots? If I'm wrong, how about Garland returning? They might cut over 40M in payroll. I expect at least half of that to be invested in CY additions and that gives you ample room to add another couple quality pieces.

Jon Garland could be a guy the Sox rebuy at a low point on. He doesn't have the stuff of Javy but he's been a league average pitcher throughout his career and at times has been just above league average. He also always gives innings and is comfortable. I could totally see Garland back on the southside.