Chisoxfn

QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 22, 2008 -> 06:47 PM) texas tech is just getting pounded.....ive thought the whole time that the actual best team of those 3 is oklahoma....i think texas and texas tech and even oklahoma state are a bit overrated...outside of each other those teams haven't beaten anyone.... Except Texas did beat OU.

QUOTE (shipps @ Nov 23, 2008 -> 09:48 AM) Kung Fu Hustle is one of my favorite movies let alone one of my favorite Kung fu movies. God I love everything about it. Thats a freaking entertainin movie.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 23, 2008 -> 01:34 PM) Yeah, they actually lost a lawsuit last year for false advertising. Although I believe the vitamins help a bit. I take Zicam and it shortens the cold. Its basically just zinc I believe. Ya, when I start feeling I cold I take Zicam. Its pretty much zinc which I believe is scientifically proven to shorten the cold.

Some interesting names. Townsend (top pick who hasn't been able to stay healthy) & Veal. Plus some former highly touted players like Tony Richie, Ryan Harvey.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 23, 2008 -> 01:44 PM) Eh, if you consider December and January "awhile" then I suppose. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...rtnerId=rss_mlb Also, Javy refuses to play for any team on the West Coast and has the no trade protection to back it up and you gotta figure the Dodgers can get better value than Javy Vazquez for an all world talent like Matt Kemp. Javy also rejected a deal to LA when the Yanks were trying to deal him, IIRC.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 23, 2008 -> 05:05 AM) Does anyone think KW may go after Edmonds to play CF? He tried trading for him last offseason and Edmonds refused, although if you hear Edmonds explaination of it, he had like an hour to decide which wasn't enough time. He was horrid with SD, but if you look at his numbers with the Cubs in 250 AB, he gives you about what you would expect Swisher, best case scenerio to give you in 150 AB even at 39. Perhaps a stop-gap solution to CF. Edmonds isn't a bad option in a platoon type role if the Sox make upgrades at other areas.

Sounds like the type of guy you could potentially take a chance on.

Perez sounds much more like the type of guy you give a million to 2 million signing bonus to and call it a day.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 02:27 PM) I would think a trade of either Camby or Kaman is next, otherwise that's going to be a pain to split their minutes. Too bad the Bulls don't have a whole lot of bargaining chips anymore, Kaman would be a great fit. Kaman would be a great fit and would fit in with the core. I'd even trade Deng in a package for him because Deng is really not fitting into the current system (and I love Luol). Kaman/Gooden is a legit 4/5 combo with Rose a legit 1. You'd than just need to find the 2/3's and those are typically the easiest positions to fill on the court. Deng is obviously too much, but a healthy Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas or Noah plus a pick could intrigue the Clippers.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 01:08 PM) Even without Gordon we'd be at worst a push with the Thunder. Exactly...and they might be the worse team in NBA history.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 22, 2008 -> 01:24 PM) I don't quite understand how Jenks is a better bet than Fuentes. Fuentes has been rock solid the past 4 seasons in Colorado. Jenks is legit, very legit. He's young and has phenomenal stuff. A lot of us Sox fans underestimate Bobby Jenks. I've watched Krod for years and Rodriguez has a nasty slider but I'd take Jenks over him (and there aren't many guys I'd take over Krod). Sure Krod is a bit over-rated, but he's still one of the best in the biz (Papleboner, Nathan, Rivera are 3 guys that are hands down better than Bobby/Krod/Putz).

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 22, 2008 -> 01:08 PM) Actually the whole declining speed on his fastball and declining k rate comes from soxtalk posters as well. It's a valid concern. I would have figured Jenks would have shut everyone up in the post-season/very end of the regular season when his velocity was up a couple mph. He always talks about how he still has it and all of us kind of doubted it but I quickly shut my mouth after seeing him throw gas in the post-season (albeit I'd have liked to see more of him in the playoffs).

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 22, 2008 -> 10:48 AM) Agreed, but I don't think there's any substance to all this stuff anymore. I have to believe Pelfrey is the exact type of player Kenny would want and if Pelfrey was really on the table, and discussions really were heated, Kenny would have completed this somehow before Levineline even mentioned it. I really don't see Kenny haggling over some comparatively small detail like Murphy or Heilman. If Pelfrey is out there, and you're getting Martinez too, just go ahead and do it. IMO Pelfrey going forward is the best player in the deal. Also, I really have to question where Bruce Levineline gets his information. Even the fans on the boards here pretty much figured the guy to be unavailable. Maybe Pelfrey was an early counteroffer from Kenny, but I don't think "heated discussions" happen around that guy unless the Mets are either really stupid or pessimistic about him or the Sox are giving up a package that is greater than Javy and Jenks. Kunz and Parnell have been mentioned, and maybe the real discussions are centered around Javy + Jenks for Martinez, Murphy, Kunz/Parnell, and Heilman. That's a considerably weaker package though, and I would definitely shop around if a package like that was what was really being offered. I know first hand that the Sox are very high on Pelfrey. They have tried to acquire him in the past and I wouldn't be shocked at all if they are trying to acquire him right now. He's already a league average starter, if not above average, and has all of the tools to be a #2 type of guy for a long time. Honestly, I could totally live with Pelfrey/Martinez because you are talking about two potential cornerstone players, one who is already producing at the big league level. I still believe to get fairer value a 3rd player is needed but you also have to look at how much value cash is worth now-a-days and the Sox would be saving significant cash.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 22, 2008 -> 12:37 PM) He has good stuff and I think he'll be fine. He might have a Matt Thornton 2007 type year, but that doesn't mean he'll never be good again. He's not a guy like Cotts, whose entire arsenal was a hitch in his delivery that made him hard to pick up. Howell's stuff isn't even close to being on par with Thornton's. He has mediocre velocity on his fastball, although his hook is a plus pitch. I was a big fan of his back to his days at the University of Texas but I think scouts had it right when they identified him as the type of guy that wouldn't make it as a starter. He has a fit being a solid reliever, but I don't see him being anything like Thornton who is a dominant reliever at times and a potential closer.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 22, 2008 -> 10:24 AM) Dye for Iwamura and Howell? The only other piece that would fit woud be Upton, and I know Maddon had personality clashes with him, but I dont see that happening. If it does and the Mets deal happens, KW will get a lot of hype for his offseason moves, similar to Detroit last season. I'd cream my pants if we were able to acquire Upton for Dye. The reality is that Upton has way too much value based upon his pure tools, plus he had a ridiculous post-season run.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 01:45 PM) It seems most Mets phenom OFs don't become the stars they were supposed to be. In fact, Lastings Milledge is another potential comparison you could make.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 01:45 PM) I think you'll either see KW flip some of these guys for a player like Roberts, or he will sign a FA we didnt even think about. I just hope KW knows that you cant unload Dye, Jenks and Javy and expect reclamation projects to fuel this team. Orlando Hudson is another FA possibility, but it might take a bit of time because there is no way the Sox are going to give him the 5/50 he's asking for.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 01:35 PM) Okay if we can only give up Jenks and Vazquez for Martinez and Pelfrey, I would do that in a heartbeat. Martinez is a f***ing stud and Pelfrey has a bright future. I'd maybe want another piece, but why would the Mets do this? But...it's probably both guys for either Martinez or Pelfrey. I'm not sure- I still may consider that. On a sidenote, giving up just one of Pelfrey or Martinez for Jenks and Javy would be highway f***ing robbery by the Mets. Theyd' be robbing the Sox blindly.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 01:35 PM) Okay if we can only give up Jenks and Vazquez for Martinez and Pelfrey, I would do that in a heartbeat. Martinez is a f***ing stud and Pelfrey has a bright future. I'd maybe want another piece, but why would the Mets do this? But...it's probably both guys for either Martinez or Pelfrey. I'm not sure- I still may consider that. Martinez is similar to what Felix Pie was a few years back though so I would not be happy with just those two, but those could be the cornerstones. Martinez has a ton of talent but a lot of his value is still based upon projections as he's yet to even come close to backing that up in the minors (albeit he's consistently been young for his level and has still put up solid stats). So ultimately Martinez is still a very "risky" prospect in the sense that I'd be hard pressed to guarantee success.

It's pretty evident if Kenny is in these type of talks that he must have something up his sleeve regarding either the funds or prospects/players acquired. My guess is it is more related to the funds acquired and the reason he needs to get them done sooner rather than later is that at least one of his plans involves free agency. I highly doubt they'd go after Sabathia given how long the deal would be and Sheets doesn't make much sense given his injury history (although clearly a front line ace would be a huge help). Than there is Manny and Tex who you wouldn't think the Sox would go after. Tex still wouldn't make sense cause we've yet to hear anything about Konerko, but clearly Manny could fit into a new outfield and would help with attendance (just look at what happened in LA with him). I don't even think the money would be the problem because to an extent he would pay for himself, the bigger question is the years and if you could get him to bight on a 3yr 75-80M deal you make the move, imo. Quentin/Manny/Thome/Konerko would be a sick 3-4-5-6.

Ya, this is good cause it was being talked about in another thread. An initial rumor reported Heilman and Pelfrey being part of the deal. Did ESPN later revise this to mention Pelfrey and Martinez? I could live with a package centered around those two, but obviously the Sox have to be getting something else in return. Could Murphy be the 3rd piece? Would anyone be interested in that type of haul. The Mets would clearly be getting the best talent in the current stand-point, however, the Sox would shed payroll (hopefully for another move) as well as land 3 long-term pieces, one of which who has the chance to be a potential superstar (Martinez).

He'll end up settling for something like 4yrs 50M, imo. But I could be wrong.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 12:52 PM) What I am saying (again) is we rip players who leave via free agency, call them greedy, etc. I think they deserve the exact same understanding we give the team when they trade someone. So while no one here is mourning the loss of Dye, neither should we get pissed when a player leaves on their own. You know the same feeling both ways. Tit for Tat. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't know how many different ways I can say it. This shows there are no loyalties in baseball. So fans should not expect loyalty from players and not teams. It's all a business. If you get offered a fair contract and do a lot of shady stuff than I'll call you greedy. I don't believe many Sox fans called Ventura greedy or even Konerko greedy during his entire process. How we could ever call Dye greedy is beyond me. Afterall, this is a guy who turned down more money because he had already verbally agreed to a deal with the White Sox and again took less money to stay with the Sox. Magglio was the exception, not the rule, imo. I wouldn't have called Buehrle greedy had he left either and I'm certainly not calling Crede greedy for how everything went down with him and the Sox.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 20, 2008 -> 06:01 PM) Rose has the ball at all times, Gordon not so much. The shot per touch ratio for these two would show just how much more often Gordon shoots it per touch, not to mention Rose is shooting at a higher percentage than Gordon is this year. The reason the Gordon is a ballhog issue is being brought up is HE IS a ballhog. Now, the Bulls need him to shoot and need him to score so it's not horrible that he's a ballhog, but facts are facts and people have brought this issue up since the day he put a Bulls uniform on. The reasons people don't like Ben Gordon are obvious: 1. He shoots a lot (that's not my problem with him, but whatever) 2. He's a 6'2 shooting guard (that's a problem, even if you don't agree) 3. He shoots a low percentage for a guy with a scoring reputation (43 percent in his career) 4. He doesn't play defense, care about defense, or even try on defense In his defense, he's also the only scorer on the court. Gordon would be a tremendous asset in a sixth man role. In his current role on the current team, not so much, but without him, we'd probably have the worse offense of all time.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:31 AM) Unless we went out and signed Mark Texiera and Rafael Furcal with the money we saved I would be pretty pissed off about trading Javier Vazquez for Aaron Hielmann. I dont like anything the Mets have, Fernando Martinez is too much projection for what we'd have to give up to get him and they'll never trade Beltran, Reyes or Wright. Kenny Williams has never made a trade for the sake of making a trade, lets not fall into that trap. I was listening to ESPN Radio yesterday and they were mentioning how people close to the Mets are hinting that David Wright is available for trade. I"d give up an arm and a leg to have him and Quentin in the same lineup for a number of years.