kapkomet

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 09:24 PM) Is that going to get me suspended or banned? You said we should stay home if we're going to act the way we do. Well, I'll go. It's only a few blocks away for me, I can walk. I'll go when I damn well please. Just stop it. Drop it, quit picking for a fight. You know damn well what I meant, and now you're twisting it. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, go on. That's pretty much what's going on here.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 09:12 PM) Well, I'm not going to listen to someone who doesn't even live in the state my team plays in. Don't you EVER question me about whether or not I'm a Sox fan. Read between those lines and get it good. And don't respond on here, either. QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 09:19 PM) There is quite a difference between: "I think Javy is struggling for Y reason and I think that the best way to solve the problem would be X." As compared to: "Javy sucks, we should have B-Mac in there." That thread just gets old after the 1,000th time. Im sorry but at a point its just no longer constructive, its just a constant whine. I do not think most of us come here to read the worst things said about players, we all think them in our own heads. Every fan thinks when one of their players k's, or gives up a home run, commits an error, "Damn f***ing piece of s*** cant you just make the play." We just do not have to read it every other day, eventually it just is noise. ^^^^^^^ Exactly.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:23 PM) I know it wasn't addressed specifically towards me, as I know you and I had a nice debate about McCarthy yesterday (please come into the threads more and start discussions like that). Wouldn't you agree that most game threads for any sporting team is going to be reactionary and full of second guessing though? Those sorts of discussions are what make this site one of the best. We both had a viewpoint, and tried to get the other to see, and actually met somewhere in the middle, I think. That's what soxtalk is supposed to be, not this obsessive, reactionary CRAP that we see here many more times then not. I mean, it's ok to an extent, but we see the same "Vazquez pooped himself and he sucks turd balls" over and over and over and over and over and over. That's the stuff that's just insane. WE KNOW, stop obsessing. That's what I'm trying to say.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:07 PM) Aren't critical posts of the White Sox allowed on this site though? This is the best Sox site on the internet, and that's because it's soxtalk.com and not soxcheerleadingtalk.com. There's no one on this site who's 100 pct negative. Hell, even in this very thread, two of the people considered the most pessimistic, Milkman and myself, were actually telling people to not freak out over losing the game yesterday. I didn't say that, but obsessing over every single pitch and going nuts is not an enjoyable thing, and neither is reading all the spew associated with it. BTW, that post wasn't specifically addressed to you, I meant it more in general.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:01 PM) My plea is to the White Sox to play the next 39 games with intensity and energy. If not, they'll be remembered along with some other Chicago teams in the last 25 years that underachieved in the season after they won the championship/pennant. There's no use in telling people on this site how to act. We all express ourselves differently, and as long as we're Sox fans, that's enough for me. We're more negative than Cubs fans? I couldn't disagree more. No one cares about the Hawks, and the Bulls/Bears don't split up the fan base like the baseball teams do. Cubs fans have completely changed their mindset from 3 or 4 years ago. So a fan is one who s***s all over their team every chance they get, only to come back and say "CROW" when something goes right? Stay home.

The UN is not going to get there, nor was it ever. Smoke and mirrors.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 12:47 PM) Let me know when you have some time and we'll get together. The PGA was AWESOME yesterday. We sat on the 14th green for most of the day in the grandstands and saw some amazing chips and putts. And to the left of us was the 16th fairway and we saw some kick ass drives and approach shots to the 16th green. I'm really going to miss not having the Western Open here every year. I love watching golf in person. So there's not going to be ANY tournaments in the greater Chicago area anymore? Wow. This week is going to be hell. Our first TW close, and my classes start. So, off I go this morning. Blech. I'll try to contact you via email later to set something up.

I seriously want to know... for those who do not like him, please explain why.

QUOTE(THEWOOD @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 01:20 AM) he is a hack Why is that?

You all better just pray he can get back to the NL this season then.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:55 PM) It was a joke....he bombed with the Yankees in the postseason. He did, I know. But, he would be better then a 7.xx ERA that we've been seeing lately.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:54 PM) I have a feeling that Vazquez would suddenly show more testicular fortitude if he ever pitched in the posteason. You laugh, but he would.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:47 PM) McCarthy was outstanding last year...Outstanding after his callup. He earned a chance to start as the 5 this year. His change up and curve ball are 10x better than Javy's is...McCarthy's fastball has seemed a little flat this year and has made some youthful mistakes (he should have never thrown a get-me-over against the Yankees when Milky Cabrera went yard on him a couple weeks ago...Milky is the ONE GUY in that lineup that fishes hard for the first pitch)....That is a lack of experience... OK, so McCarthy would not go 20-3, this we can all agree on, but I can be certain that he would learn from his mistakes (like last year) and we would not see our own version of Groundhog Day starring Javier Vazquez. This idea that one would gurantee McCarthy would have a losing record in Javy's spot is pathetically hilarious seeing that Vazquez got > 8 RUNS A GAME support for most of this year...EIGHT FRIGGIN RUNS... McCarthy has been mis-managed and we traded some decent talent for this waste of space pitcher. And you don't know that McCarthy would have gotten the same 8 run support. He could have lost 10 games by one run. Look, bottom line is - Javy was traded because we thought we were going to be TWO pitchers down from our rotation last year. And both of those two ended up coming back on long term deals. At that point, it's better to not risk your best prospect's arm. Javy has 11 wins. McCarthy would have about the same, most likely... so it's a wash. It really is. It's not about run support, or ERA, or anything else. It's about W's. And McCarthy would give us the same about, roughly. Indeed a game or two here and there would be a lot different, but when it's all said and done, I think the records would be almost the same. McCarthy, if nothing else, has been up a whole season on the big club and can take that experience farther then he could have as a starter out there getting shelled. We can sit here and MMQB the situation all day, and at the end of the day, the W's are going to have been about the same.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:43 PM) Santana's zone seems to be expanding. It usually does as the game goes on.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:41 PM) I think the pitching staff as a whole throws way too many pitches. An emphasis should be put on minimalizing pitch counts. Its not like the Sox rotation has a lot of strikeout guys. There's something to be said for that. There's a lot of 'cutesy' type pitches being thrown this year by our staff instead of just not screwing around and getting the job done. That's one thing about last year's team... they didn't mess around, they were aggressive and they went after the hitters.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:38 PM) I think McCarthy has much better mound composure than Vazquez does. I'm not even one of these fans that think he's the next Mike Mussina, etc. And you all base that on 4 starts? Be careful. That's all I'm saying. Again, he's going to be good - and I agree with your 'composure' statement, but he will fail some too, and many seem to forget that around here.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:35 PM) I disagree that he'd have a losing record. If he was in Vazquez's spot, he'd easily have a winning record. We've given Vaz the lead in almost every start, and his blow-ups have taken us from a comfortable lead to trailing very fast. You're assuming that B-Mac wouldn't have those blowups? He has some growing up to do... and everyone seems to forget that. Sometimes, I think Sox fans put McCarthy on the same pedistal that Cubs fans put Prior on. Think about it. The approach taken with McCarthy - I'd rather see this then him injured all over the place in the next 3-5 years.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:31 PM) As far as the McCarthy haters....at least the guy did have a role in our title season last year, or did we forget the 1-hitter in Texas and the shutout (for 8) in Boston? Javy would never do that. GMAB. I'm far from a McCarthy hater. In fact, I'm probably more supportive of him then even a lot of you. He's been mismanaged this year, but he certainly wasn't going to be the 20-3 pitcher many make him here to be. Personally, as somone just mentioned, I would rather have him go through this season like this then see him go the route of Verlander, Liriano, et. al. The kid's going to be awesome, but not this year. As a starter this year, he'd 100% have a losing record. No doubt in my mind. Then what would everyone b**** about?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:27 PM) I really don't think Ozzie has a role for him. I think he'd be far more effective if he knew exactly what his role was. 100% agree with you there. He's an arm in the bullpen. That's it. And it's too bad.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:26 PM) I think that KW didn't believe he was going to re-sign both Garland and Contreras in the offseason, and he was planning on trading one of them if they didn't re-sign. Once they both re-signed, KW got caught with his pants down. I don't think he expected Count to resign - but it's a good thing he did. Javy is such an enigma. Someone said it when they said a million dollar arm and a ten cent head. That's the best way to summarize, that's for sure. I just wish he could get his head in the game...

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:25 PM) If he isn't any good, then why the hell does everybody want him, and why the hell won't KW upgrade his roster by dealing him? IMO McCarthy is at worst the 4th best starter on the roster. I didn't say he isn't any good. But, it's not his role right now.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:24 PM) Kap Bmac was a bit better than decent last September. He cant be stretched out this year, its too late. That's pretty much what I'm saying.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:23 PM) I know it's a lost cause for him to start the rest of this season. I put absolutely no stock into his first few starts last year, as he wasn't pitching with all of his pitches. When he came back up, he was showing that he could definitely be an effective starter at this level. If we're going to judge guys based on how they looked when they first came up, then KW should have never let Brian Anderson be our starting CF at the beginning of this year after how awful he looked last year. Now that I can agree with. I think he should have been given the chance right away this year, but the trade for Javy blew that.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:22 PM) So what the hell is the differnce in this and what Javy gives us? Look, Javy's been a tool. We all know that. It's an understatement, in fact. But, given the situation as it exisits TODAY he has to stay where he is. I hate to say it, but Javy's going to be here a while. Now Freddy, on the other hand...

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:20 PM) He's not related to or a good friend of Ozzie, and his name is not Jose McCarthez. GMAFB. Seriously.