GreenSox

For the Sox, good starting pitching has usually revealed itself early on. Some take a season or 1/2 a season in the majors to get straight. But that's been about it.

Another big difference for the Phillies this year is that 2 of their young starters who weren't very good last year, are very good this year, one of whom is the guy they got from the Nats for Papelbon. Starting pitching progress is the biggest void so far. Stockpile it.

I'd only trade Yolmer if they get something legit. I think he's better than his #s, but that may be my bias because I like his game in general. I would think Leury would be attractive to other teams...he can play CF and SS. Now while I wouldn't trade him for scraps, I would expect that much either. We may have a MI infield log jam in the future, but it's not here yet. Maybe Rodon can play - I didn't really notice much, but some said they liked his game.

And the White Sox are in their 6th straight below .500 season. I count the Cubs from when Theo was hired; the Astros from when Luhnow was hired; the Phillies from the season that they traded Cole Hamels (which is prior to when their current GM was hired). The Braves won in 2013, had an unexpected down year in 2014, and late in 2014 decided to rebuild: it took 3 years. So if my premise is wrong then the White Sox are in year 6 of the rebuild.

Then let me be more precise on the question. Why does this FO need and deserve more than 3 years to rebuild this organization into a winning team, when the Astros, Cubs, Phillies and Braves needed only 3.

It's reassuring that he's sticking with the rebuild but he didn't really explain why he needs more than the 3 years that the Astros, Cubs, Braves and Phillies needed. He wasn't asked either, unfortunately.

I would keep Avi before I'd keep Abreu. Bad in the clubhouse is a problem, but keeping players because they are "good in the clubhouse" is for the birds, especially on a team like this. Avi hasn't caused any problems in Chicago.

The Sox do need to start the buildup, but the pitching, primarily starting pitching, is the problem (ranked 29th). The young starters have not materialized. Kopech has the same issue the rest of these guys do - can't throw enough strikes. Lack of pitching shouldn't dissuade from moving Abreu. Of course, that doesn't mean "Trade for Syndegard", which is a silly and resource-depleting contrivance.

I tend to agree. With Avi, it appears that the Sox finally have a hitter who is a) really good and b) ascending. This FO has spent so many resources and so much energy over the past decade chasing players who are past their prime. Those are the players to trade away. Regardless, they don't need to move Avi anytime soon. On another note, I thought Santiago's best work in his first Sox stint was as a short-stint reliever. Really nice effort tonight in that regard.

While it's not necessary or probably wise to extend now, we've saw Avi consistently suck until last season and he hasn't since. 1/2 dozen top 100 OF prospects? I can think of 2. Last year the cw was we have too much pitching. We don't have nearly enough. Where are they?

I think they still have a year with Avi to make that decision, right? They can hold him for a year - trade value might actually improve if he rakes, which he might.

Avi's younger, and, frankly, makes more sense to extend a few years, imo. and I think the Sox would still get more for Abreu. And Avi's less likely to regress waiting a year to trade him; and in a year, his replacement may be ready.

It was and is a team rebuilding year; but you still need to see some micro building, i.e. some individual players making progress. That 3 top prospect pitchers have basically hit a wall once they hit the majors (I guess Lopez has been okay) is concerning.

But the Sox need to trade Jose more than Avi.

ON a side note, congrats to the Cincinnati Reds for winning the Frazier trade by about 10 miles. Dodgers lost talent wise in the trade Sox basically lost opportunity cost.

Ozzie had a real soft-spot for swing-at-everything guys and slap-hitters, especially aging ones. When he was able to push his will onto the org., beginning in 2007, it was a disaster. Williams provided temporary relief in 2008 by trading for Quentin and Swisher, but he dumped Swisher for nothing, Quentin got hurt, and we were back to Ozzie favs like Pierre, Erstad, Kotsay and DeWayne Wise

Ozzie has a strong personality, but he was weak too: he lacked experience, he was unreliable (to be kind) when evaluating talent. It's not the personalities - laid back is fine (Torre and Francona are laid back). It's knowledge of the game and the ability to implement that knowledge; and the ability to judge talent and personnel.

And where is the front office on this? Its job, among other things, is to establish, integrate and maintain organizational philosophy and culture. Feckless.

Davidson hasn't regressed; Palko. Avi seems to be fine. I doubt that it's the hitting coach calling for bunts instead of driving the dagger. To me, the bigger issue is the lack of progress with the young pitching. And then it's hard to believe that the pitching coach doesn't have input into Renteria's often daft pitching decisions. But Don the icon is also Don the sacred cow. As for Renteria, a trait of weak managers is to hire weak mangers (when they obviously should hire the strongest that they can find).

Wouldn't surprise me; after the mini-retool in 2014, this front office's first move was to trade young players for 1 year of Samardzija's services off of 73 wins. No telling what the plans are to build this team up - just hope the FO gets it right this time.

Who, if we're lucky, will develop into another Yolmer. At some point, they have to start building the team up. And hope never to hear again the importance of Abreu's great leadership...move him.

He needs to be an .800+ OPS hitter

I appreciate that and I like how JR is really good to a lot of people. But he's got to get someone who understands the game. A manager simply can't do what Renteria did today.

He's obviously over his head. But what exactly does the FO want in a manager? I know they want someone who will listen to them...a lot of front offices want that. But those other FOs want the manager to follow their analytics and that sort of thing. What do the Sox want? Someone who will put up with Cooper? There's got to be some reason they have hired two weak managers in a row.

Why? Because he was rushed. Rushed guys pick up bad habits trying to hit ML pitching. His defense warrants taking a full look. Now is the time. 5th OF who can only play D are a dime a dozen. See if the Sox have something more. There are a lot of late-blooming players around MLB. It's interesting to me that a team like the Dodgers, which has every reason not to wait for them to develop, has several of them.