GreenSox

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 1, 2016 -> 08:28 PM) Couldn't agree more. I love having Eaton on the Sox, but he is not the type of player you want in a rebuilding situation. I think his antics would really get the better of him playing for a losing team for the next few years. Eaton was more serious and more productive last year; perhaps a result of further declowning of the 25 man (Alexei, e.g.). Trad him, yes, if someone wants to pay for a 5 WAR player( which I Doubt). Sale and the vets should bring sufficient fresh talent to revitalize this org. It's a lot more to trade than the Cubs or Astros had (although premiums are often better achieved In July, esp for short term vets). Q and Eaton would be solid building blocks. Note that the Astros held back Altuve in their dispersal and rebuilding. The Sox were bad last year because Hahn has not built the Sox up the middle (affirmatively downgraded catcher and filled CF late last year). The staff and pen were each 3 deep. The org had no depth. He then refused to do much in July for 2 years running. He seems to be frozen until he can move Sale...hope he doesn't forego opportunities to move others in the meantime.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 1, 2016 -> 08:10 PM) I'd rather have McCutcheon starting in center field for the White Sox than Tilson the next 2 seasons. If the team can get him from the Pirates for some common prospects, I would do it in a heartbeat. Starting Tilson in center over McCutcheon isn't rebuilding, it's nuts in my opinion. What is nuts is this team trading for McCutchen. Rick Hahn had his chances overpaying for proven veterans and he failed....miserably.....twice. Rick Hahn needs to leave fantasy land, return to earth and do his job. And one would hope, after moving Sale and perhaps some of the proven veterans on this team that the Sox would wind up with a CF a mite better than Tilson anyway.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 10:50 PM) Surely the White Sox will continue to be defined as a large-market team while Detroit and St. Louis, not to mention the rest of the AL Central, continues to be considered small market. Sox never took advantage of that international cap to sneak one or two years of huge Latin American classes into the system. As someone else said, rich and forward-thinking teams got richer and richer, everyone else got left behind at the starting line. This won't change much for the Sox. Nothing in it should instigate the Sox to give any more than their usual half-hearted effort on the international front; the forward-thinkers are now limited, so the Sox won't be hurt as badly by their international lethargy.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 10:24 PM) Jennings with a 2.08 ERA and a 194 ERA+ in 2016. Might be a good time to sell high. They should if they can, but I doubt they can. His peripherals weren't very good, and most GMs don't ignore those.

Jones is the only Sox reliever with real trade value; D Rob would have some, but for the contract. Putman is okay - The Sox like Petricka, but his numbers are terrible.

Not trading with the Cubs is silly but I don't see why Hahn had to say anything. And do the Cubs have the prospects the Sox want anyway? They've hyped Schwarber to the gills, and even if the hype were legit, he's still a DH. they've also hyped Soler ...but no one's buying that one. What is the deal the Sox could get from the Cubs that it couldn't turn down?

Thanks My mistake. I can see the nontenders on those 2.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 04:44 PM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 10m10 minutes ago Garcia, Lawrie among White Sox non-tender possibilities http://atmlb.com/2gm8jpM via @mlb What does L Garcia make? Seems like a useful utility guy, esp as we've spent over $2 mil per head on Bonificio, Beckham, etc.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:10 AM) I would prefer to explore someone like Mike Zunino, who although he can't seem to hit over .200, has huge power, but most importantly, plays really good defense and is a good pitch framer. Swihart has rated below average so far in his short career. Might give the Mariner's a chance to stretch Edwin Diaz back out to starting like he was prior to June of 2016 (now that they moved Walker), or maybe see if Diaz can be a 2-inning Andrew Miller type guy before Robertson comes in to close. Who the hell knows, but them trading Walker and Marte for Segura suggests they might be trying to win now. (Although Mariners did decline option on Iannetta, so they will be without a catcher) Mariners are trying to win now. Dumping Ianetta is more evidence that they are trying to win than they aren't.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 06:45 PM) I'm OK with the White Sox blackballing the Cubs when it comes to trading for one simple reason, I have zero faith that Hahn/Kenny can win a deal with Theo on the other end. Zero. I don't have faith that Williams and Hahn can win a deal from any GM except maybe Jockety. But they should be able to get a good return that may turn out to be a great return. Even if you don't want to deal with the Cubs, just be polite and take their calls...you don't need to affirmatively tell them that. I would avoid the Nats as well; they aren't giving up Turner, they don't have that many prospects, so there is very little room for error. Rizzo would probably make mincemeat out of Hahn.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) Pretty straight forward question: if the Sox end up trading Sale, do you think the haul and free agent additions could lead them to having a better team? I think it'll be hard to replace Sale's value, but I could definitely see a situation where the Sox plug 1-2 holes with studs, get trade pieces to fill other holes, then maybe fill in free agency. They still keep most of their core with extra control (Q, Eaton, Anderson, Rodon, Jones, etc.) and add young talent to supplement that core while not fully committing to blowing the entirety of this core up. With the way this offseason has developed so far, I could see this being the move of the front office. They could be better next season just with the haul. Forget any serious FA acquisitions right now.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 11:31 PM) Which players are you okay with cutting and getting no value on? Caufield detailed that well. And not all of those guys are cinches to be grabbed. And what's the deal with Avi? Are they really sticking with him through arb? Regardless, though, I don't see a ton of pressure on the 40 man. Realistically, for Sale you are looking at 2 elite prospects 2 others in the top 60 or so, and then some low minors guys. Maybe 3 of those will need to be on the 40 man. They may eventually trade Quintana and Eaton, but they don't seem that inclined and there's no reason to completely flood the market with our young studs. (I would move Eaton if some team will pay as if he's a 5-6 WAR player; otherwise, hang tight). I can't get a read on what they will do with Abreu - if he goes, yes that may require a spot on the 40 man. So now you're down to Frazier, Melky, D Rob, Nate Jones. The better deal for those guys very well be high ceiling low minor guys. Jones could bring a top prospect, who could still be a year or 2 away. If they want ML ready guys, D Rob would bring someone like Tilson...in this situation, a low minor prospect with a lot more upside is a better way to go.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 10:32 PM) I agree. But if you traded everyone with value this offseason per se (Sale, Q, Eaton, Abreu, Robertson, Jones, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Jennings - 10 players) you're looking at getting around 20-25 players in return. There's maybe 5 or 6 guys on our 40-man I'd be okay ditching without either seeing more of them or getting literally nothing in return for them, on a supposed rebuilding team. A lot of the guys would be low minor players. There are a bunch on the 40 man that could be cut and wouldn't be missed.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) So far with still a limited sample size, Saladino has been league average at 3B but above average at 2nd. And his bat improved last year. If he can make better contact and walk a little more, he could be really useful and play a lot. He hit about as well as Lawrie did last year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 07:58 AM) He offered Samrdzija $85 million. Perhaps not ace money in today's environment, but more than Anything Hahn may have offered. And he wasn't supposed to be an ace on the White Sox, they already had one, so your point appears way off. He signed for $90 million with the Giants, so Theo was pretty close, closer than Hahn. http://www.sbnation.com/2014/6/18/5822630/...fer-rumors-cubs Epstein offered Samardzija about 1/2 of what he offered Lester. If he wasn't supposed to be a top of the rotation starter (obviously behind Sale, but still a front end guy), why did they trade for 1 year of his services? The Giants and Cubs accurately saw him as a middle guy (and to be fair, that may be generous). Samardzija was doing the best pitching of his career when Theo moved him....he took advantage and sold high. Hahn?

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 06:07 AM) Don't forget Renteria, Julio Lugo, Varitek 2nd contract, Jenks, and Matt Clement. If there is a flaw to Epstein's game plan it is free agency. Also include Heyward and Edwin Jackson. Epstein always surrounds himself with an incredible support staff. His bread and butter is the draft, player development, and transactions trough trades and waiver pick ups. Yes he has a nice free agent pick up here and there such Zobrist, Mueller, Lester, and Beltre. But probably has had more misses with his long term contracts. I'll probably get bashed for this, but it's true dipping in free agency has been a hiccup to his game. He's been fortunate to work with orgs that can absorb some spending miscues and to allow him to hire a talented and deep staff. And they don't win the WS without Lester and Zobrist. And he's also been smart as to who to let go to free agency....Samardzija. He correctly evaluated him as not an ace. The dichotomy between Epstein and Hahn re Samardzija really encapsulates the difference between the two front offices. Epstein has also been impeccable in his trades and evaluation of his own players. A strong staff helps. Hahn could use one of those.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 10:13 PM) Russo is arguing that the Sox should try to compete every year rather than "running and hiding" for several years only to determine in three or four years, that they are still not competitive. At that point they may have done substantial damage to the franchise, the size of its fan base, and the teams bottom line. I think that's what they want to do. But to do that, it's getting clear that they need to take a step or 2 back. They "Went for it" 2 years in a row and couldn't come close to .500, much less contend. And some of the mistakes Rick Hahn made were absolute howlers. Ultimately, the key to consistent contention is to have a first rate drafting/international/development program. I'm not convinced the Sox take each of those aspects seriously.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 04:16 PM) Bregman is extremely versatile. Saladino and Sanchez can both play anywhere in the IF. You guys are arguing apples and oranges here. Why do versatile players need to have a set position, especially in this day and age? Bregman will hit anywhere you put him and Saladino will defend anywhere you put him. Agree

This is a tough call. If he is to start, he's got to smooth out his mechanics. From what I read, they tried, it wasn't working, so he reverted to his old mechanics and did better. At this point, I'd say that if they think he can be a great reliever, keep him there, and try to move him in July for a premium. If the prognosis is good/not great reliever, then go back to square one and work on the delivery and starting, perhaps in A or AA. I would look at Burdi the same way. Apparently they do think he can be a great reliever, so maybe pitch him to move him. If not, step back and work him as a starter as well. If it doesn't work out for either, they can go back to relief. As an aside, if Burdi and Fulmer are to be great relievers, then the Sox would have quite a 3 headed late-inning pen with Jones, Burdi and Fulmer.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 06:18 AM) Why is it far fetched to get Bregman and Springer for Sale. Bregman hasn't proven a thing at the MLB level and Springer isn't an untouchable superstar by any means. Sale is the top LH in the American, only 27, and tremendously underpaid. Those 2 are a starting point in my book. If Sale was on another team, people would be saying the Sox would have to offer Eaton, Anderson, and Rodon for starters. The Astros are in go for it mode, and would be cutting their own throat trading away 2 major offensive players. It's unrealistic to expect them to do that even though Sale is probably worth it. Springer shouldn't be a key piece for the Sox anyway; good, not great, 4 years left, about to hit arb. His best position isn't a key defensive position. Like I said in another thread, he's like Swisher. QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 07:02 AM) Why do some people who want Bregman want to play him at third? He'd be far more valuable at a middle infield position. He just played more 3B than second the last year and a half because of Correa and Altuve. To me it depends on who they have at 3B if he plays 2B; or who they have at 2B if he plays 3B. Sox have a few guys who can play 2B, fewer who can play 3B (and one of those for 1 year only) and have come up with only 3 good 3B in the past 30 years.

Sale - Goes Quintana - Stays Robertson - Stays until deadline Frazier - Goes Jones - Goes Abreu - Goes Melky -Stays until deadline Eaton - Stays Jennings - Stays until deadline Gonzalez/Shields- Stay as somebody has to pitch and no reason or Rick Hahn to rush up any more prospects; one may get moved in July if has a great year.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Nov 24, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) Am I the only person who would want Anderson moved to CF if the Sox acquire Bregmen? Anderson's defensive numbers were a lot better than Bregman's. Boston package is my third choice behind LAD and Houston.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 24, 2016 -> 07:56 AM) Hope we don't trade him without giving him a real opportunity. Agree Rick Hahn has dispatched a lot of second tier ML ready prospects in his few years at the helm.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 23, 2016 -> 11:04 PM) I don't disagree with what you're saying, but Walker has accomplished basically nothing. He obviously has a huge ceiling, but right now it doesn't look he's going to reach it. It's very possible they're selling high on Walker. Walker has a lower WHIP and ERA than Rodon; that is mitigated because his park is friendlier, and he doesn't have Rodon's 9 Ks/9, but he's got 8. There is some talent there. Seattle may be selling high on Walker; Arizona also may be selling high on Segura. That's what makes the trade interesting.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 23, 2016 -> 10:47 PM) Interestingly bad, in my opinion. Lots of moves like the Sox have been known to make in the past (hopefully). They're definitely trying to win in 2017 and 2018 at any cost. Some good, some bad. But they don't seem like Sox moves at all to me. .