SkokieSox

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Sep 23, 2007 -> 06:42 PM) Vazquez pitched well down the stretch last season when the Sox were still in contention. He pitched well early this season before the Sox fell out of contention. He's been one of the 20 best starters in the AL for over a year. I don't think he pitches well only when there's no pressure, but that's just me. Do I wish the Sox could rescind the Young trade? Yes, without a doubt. Young is more valuable. It was a bad trade. But the Sox didn't get totally ripped off. It wasn't an epically bad trade -- they did get value in return. Just not equal value. I disagree, I think at this moment in time, factoring both players on the market, Vazquez would bring in considerably more than Young. In fact, I think Vazquez under contract could net a talent like Young and potentially more.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 23, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) Chris Young's homer rate is almost as good as Josh Fields'. Throw in he's a gold glove calibur defender and most likely will be a 30+ steals guy, plus the money differential, Vazquez is going to have to show he can pitch like he has this year when the team is in contention. Vizcaino, and El Duque were both part of that deal as well. Vizcaino was pretty valuable. El Duque being around may have helped Contreras, we don't know. Contreras was pretty good without him to begin the season last year, but maybe El Duque would have helped when the struggles began. Whatever, they can't rescind the deal. I just have a hard time with people puffing their chests out talking about how everyone against that trade was wrong after Vazquez has a good year on a team that may finish in last place. A guy like Paul Byrd was available that offseason. I don't see how anyone can say that trade has worked out well since the Sox finished 3rd last year and either 4th or 5th this year. Despite the losing this team has done, it can hardly be put on the shoulders of Vazquez. As someone pointed out below, Young has great potential, but a low average and OBP. He will certainly get better I'd say, but the plan was to win now. Besides, Pods had come off a good year, we had Anderson ready to take CF, and with that being the plan, it was worth turning a valued prospect into a quality pitcher who could eat innings. Especially considering the amount of innings our starters had thrown. It's easy to forget, but the situation called for us to make a move like this. Looking at today, the deal still looks good to me. With the FA pitching market being what it is set up to be this offseason, it allows the team to move a starting pitcher and get a lot of value in return, which the team is able to do because of having Vazquez in the first place.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Sep 23, 2007 -> 03:02 PM) Seriously. Let me know when Javier Vazquez pitches well in a game that matters. Sure, you could point out his 3.86 ERA in his last 12 games of 2006 when the Sox were fighting for a playoff berth. But I prefer to ignore that. Of course, why count the times he's done well when there is negative times we can focus on.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 22, 2007 -> 07:13 PM) Anyone remember when the Bulls played some exibition games in Paris and Michael Jordan mentioned he enjoyed his visit to "the Luge"? See, even us super stars can make mistakes.

QUOTE(Shadows @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:46 AM) I think its safe to say you lost $500 2 more to go...

It'd be an upgrade, that's for sure. I'd prefer some other scenerios, but I wouldn't criticize a move like this, with knowing other moves would still be made.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 10:23 PM) He will probably get $30 million + a year. I don't know how much more revenue he would bring in. White Sox fans show up for wins, not to see an icon. Tom Seaver's starts didn't boost attendance, Albert Belle's presence didn't either. The Sox would have to win, and sell close to a million more tickets a season. I don't know if capacity would even allow it. T-shirts man. t-shirts. The Sox would definitely make money, any team would definitely make money. That's the only reason he'd get $30 mill plus. PS, could you imagine the potential of 6 30(+) homerun players (Thome, Dye, Konerko, Arod, Crede, Fields) You could certainly go on base and speed for the rest of the lineup, two up top, and one in the 9 hole. Great lineup potential... You could market that well too.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 03:14 AM) The way this team is set up right now, they can barely afford Rowand let alone A Rod and some Japanese guys. Bob That all depends. With as much money that a player like AROD would cost, he'd bring in at least as much in revenue, probably quite a bit more.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 02:18 AM) He's a good outfielder, but he was nowhere near one of the best defensive outfielders in the AL in 2005. Granted, that season was all Sox for me, so I can't say emphatically that he was the hands down GG. Devils advocate for a second, not the best outfielder, but up there with CF's. Again though, he may not have been the best, but he did a great job IMO. Better than Hunter, I feel playing time needs to be considered.

QUOTE(knightni @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 12:11 AM) I've never heard the phrase, "all set and done" before. Is it new? Yes, it is new. Feel free to use it...

QUOTE(The Critic @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 12:19 AM) I believe it's a take-off/bastardization/reworking/misinterpretation of "when all is said and done". I like mine better...

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 01:15 AM) If Gold Glove means misreading fly balls in the 9th inning or hitting the pitcher's mound with every throw home, then Rowand should have been a Gold Glove winner in 2005. Or if it means playing a good CF, that might be a better measure, which he certainly does.

QUOTE(Shadows @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:46 AM) I think its safe to say you lost $500 Not necessarily, but even so, no hard loss, I won 4 grand a month ago.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:43 AM) Naw not at all. We're on the same page here. Cool

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:39 AM) I was obviously kidding gep. I wasn't trying to make anything out of nothing like what your doing here. Lol - I'm not trying to make anything out of it. I'm just ensuring my point was clarified since you had a difference in opinion.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:30 AM) Since when did Left-Center Field become the same as Left Field? It's been a while for Thome though. He's been hitting his homers from Right Field, Right Center, Center Field, and Left-Center Field recently. Not sure if he's hit one to left this season, but he still does have those bodacious muscles of his to do so ei"g"her way. BTW: I know im nit-picking I know Left Center is at the Left side of the field. What's the difference, you want him to hit the foul pole or something? As long as he can hit homeruns to both sides of the field with authority, I don't see any downside to hitting to left center vs. left. If anything it's better, he's slashing the gaps. Besides 501 was in left.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:31 AM) I've said it before and I'll say it again...it would be a very smart move to pick a day when there is a lefty starter on the mound once per week and decide that JD is going to DH and Terrero (if he's still here) is going to play RF. Why push your luck and wind up getting JT hurt? Because I want 34 homeruns - that's why.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:20 AM) You sir, are a liar. 501 was as well.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:20 AM) You sir, are a liar. Not 500, my mistake, but it was within a few of it.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:19 AM) There actually has been numerous rip jobs on Thome even last season. The latest when he was slumping a couple of weeks ago was that he had lost his power. And what reasoning has caused this theory? The guy has hit a minimum of 30 every year except for one in the last 12 seasons.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:03 AM) All he does is pull the ball, he's lost that good oppo power stroke when was the last time he hit a HR to left field? Jim will get to 34 just as long as the final 10 games are all blowouts, if the game is close and Thome comes to the plate . . . forget about it, he'll K every time. Left center #500

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:05 AM) You need to read SoxTalk more. Thome's lost his power. He's a nice guy though. Your ability to copy and paste astounds me.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 02:59 AM) You need to read Soxtalk more often. Thome has lost his power. He's a nice guy though. He has 30 homeruns, and hit 42 last year. What do you mean?

The spread was 33.5 homeruns at the beginning of the season, and I threw five hundo on it. What's the consensus of this taking place with the limited games we have left? As of this moment, he has 30 homers and 10 games left. He's been on fire, I'm hoping he finishes strong...

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) You can look up the stats, Garland is a league average pitcher. A league average pitcher that will throw 200 innings is valuable -- if he's a one year rental and making $12M he's probably worth a B prospect and C or two. Pretty much what Garcia brought in return. The Sox aren't going to get what the Rox got for Jennings. Considering we got two pitchers who very well could both be in the rotation in 09, I'd be happy about that. I have to say though, we would have received the package that Jennings got, but we asked for Hunter Pence as well. Can't say I blame the effort by KW... But it goes to show, Garland won't be handed over for scraps.