Jordan4life_2007

Damn, I just now found out about this. Not a bad move. Miller is pretty good if healthy.

QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 04:36 PM) Impressive list? Go ahead and accumulate one. Out of the center position there was very little talent to be head. It was mostly out of the power forward position and the average weight for then was 215-225. Moderan day basketball many shooting guards weight 215+ and they was not the case back then. The games are really no comparable. The players are in 10 times better shape do to medical reasons for and work out machines. Let's see, Wilt went up against Bill Russell, you know, the guy that many believe is the greatest defensive player who ever lived. He went up against guys like Willis Reed and Nate Thurmond. They're only 2 of the 50 greatest players ever and both are hall of famers. Who else? There's this guy named Kareem. I'm sure you've heard of him. I can think of guys like Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier and Elvin Hayes. I'm pretty sure all three are in the hall of fame. Sure, Wilt was a freak of nature back then, but so is Shaq. Are we gonna take away from Shaq because he's so much bigger and stronger than everybody else? Are we gonna say Shaq's 3 rings aren't as impressive because his number one competition at that time at center was Vlade Divac? As for players being bigger and stronger than they were back then? NO DUH! If those players had the same type of training, nutrition and technology we have now back in 1965, they would be just as big and just as strong. It doesn't mean we have to diminish what they accomplished. See above. No, he wouldn't be top echelon. He would be by far and away the best center in the league. Only Shaq would be close. Could you imagine Wilt in today's game with the training, nutrition and technology we have now? Going up against stiffs like Chris Mihm, Erick Damiper and Adonal Foyle on a regular basis? In a league that is softer than Bobby Jenks' belly? I know when young people think of Wilt. they think of Shaq. But Wilt had a much more rounded game than Shaq has ever had. I'd say he would average around 33ppg, 16rpg, 4bpg on close to 60% shooting if he were playing today. I don't think to many people would disagree. I don't get what you're saying here. You say Wilt's 100 point game isn't all that because you feel the competition wasn't that good. Then you would have to say the same thing about Kobe's 81, right? Outside of Chris Bosh, that's an nbdl type team. They're not just bad. Bad would actually be an improvement. They're HORRIBLE. They're the 29th ranked defensive team out of 30 teams. Me, you, Rowand44 and Jeckle could probably drop 100 on them. Hell, Carmelo scored damn near 40 points against them on 16 shots last night. I don't think you're being fair.

The Seahawks would've destroyed us.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 10:55 AM) On the Kobe/Jordan thing...not only was Mike playing in a different Era...but I don't know if Mike had to put up with this bad of a supporting cast at any point after his first couple seasons in the league. For his best years...he actually had people to feed, so even on games where he'd go off for 55-60...he'd still pass the ball because it was just a more high percentage shot. The 1987 Bulls were probably just as bad, if not worse, than these Lakers. Here's the roster: Michael Jordan, Charles Oakley, John Paxson, Gene Banks, Brad Sellers, Dave Corzine, Sedale Threatt, Earl Cureton, Steve Colter, Mike Brown, Elston Turner, Pete Myers and Granville Waiters. I almost cried just typing that. I also came across a very good article that kinda backs up what I said earlier about what Michael would do if he were playing today. Here's a couple portions of it. Here's the entire article:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/marty_burns/01/23/notebook.0123/index.html I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe, Lebron or any of the top perimiter players today. But these new rules are definitely helping them.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 08:41 AM) The only guy on the court that could guard MJ was MJ. If MJ wasn't such an offensive player, he would have been talked about as the best defensive guard of all time. MJ would have found a way to keep Shaq and Phil around. MJ knew when to keep his ego in check. On the offensive side of the court, Kobe is as close to MJ as I've seen. But as an all-around talent? Nope. Not yet. BTW, the closest to MJ was actually before him. Oscar Robertson, he averaged a triple double during the 1961-62 season. 12.5 RPG 11.4 APG 30.8 PPG Most new fans don't realize what a phenom the Big O was. Agreed. But most young fans are ignorant to previous eras. It's really sad. I think Qwerty even said Wilt wasn't that good because he dominated white midgets? lol. I could pull up a pretty impressive list of centers Wilt destroyed in his day. Imagine what Wilt would do if he got to go up against the centers of today.

This might sound like sour grapes, but I don't even want to think about what a young Michael would do if he were playing today. The way they're calling games now, especially on the perimiter, I wouldn't bet against him averaging 40 ppg. Of course, that would do nothing for the team. But I think he could do it if he wanted.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 08:18 AM) I'm not saying he should never shoot that many shots but he sure as hell shouldn't be taking a lot of shots per game imo. The Lakers are winless by the way when he shoots 15 or more. I agree that eventually Kobe is going to have to give up some shots but he really doesn't have a choice right now, if he doesn't shoot a ton, they aren't going to win. I see your point. But they're not winning that much with him shooting a ton, either. Their record after 41 games is exactly where it was a year ago after 41 games. And they've got a very tough 7 game road trip coming up next week I believe. Lamar Odom had a breakout year in 2004. He clearly hasn't been the same player since. Coincidence? They've got a few guys on that team that could probably score atleast a little more then they are now. And it's not like the Lakers are gonna be able to add any real impact talent in the future anyway. Not unless they trade Lamar Odom. So it would be best for Kobe to pull back a little bit and see what the other guys can do. Of course, I know this isn't gonna happen.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 07:59 AM) There is a reason Kobe takes all the shots on that team. Look at the Lakers record when Odom shoots 15+ shots, it's not pretty. It's pretty amazing that this team is over .500 and it's all Kobe and Phil. Kobe is the best parimeter player in basketball right now, period. So you're saying Lamar should never take more than 15 shots in a game? I don't know what their record is when he does take 15+ shots, but that's sure as hell not the reason why they're only a couple games over.500. All I'm saying is that Kobe can score all the points he wants. Him taking 35+ shots a night is not gonna do anything for his teammates or the success of the franchise in the long run. Jordan figured this out. Kobe's in his tenth season and still doesn't seem to understand that.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 01:38 AM) Right now, they really want Chris Bosh when he becomes a UFA. Bosh saw first hand tonight Kobe's game. I wonder what impact it will have as you said. And I don't think Jackson is going to be there for anymore then 3 more years anyways, so that'll definitely have an impact. They're already way over the cap as it is. Even when Brian Grant's contract is up, they're still over the cap. How will they be able to afford Bosh? Who no doubt will get a max or close to a max contract?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 01:33 AM) I wonder how this effects the Lakers' future. How many quality players will sign with Los Angeles knowing Bryant's selfish antics are backed by the entire organization? Their final record--and perhaps more importantly-- record in the playoffs, will play a large role in their future. What exactly is appealing about a low seeded team in a tough conference with no immediate hopes of obtaining a title? Overpaying will be the only route. Or the allure of playing in Los Angeles with Phil Jackson. I'm positive few basketball players throughout the league aren't telling themselves, "wow, I'd love to be that guys teammate." Kobe got what he's always wanted. The freedom to shoot as much as he wants, as often as he wants without anybody on the team being able to say a damn thing about it. It amazes me how most of Kobe's teammates, especially Odom, don't seem to mind that they go entire quarters at times without taking a shot. Do you know that Smush Parker was the Lakers second leading shot taker last night with 11? lol. Then people have the nerve to say the reason Kobe was taking all those shots is because nobody else was doing anything. You can't score if you don't shoot. You're totally right in saying who the hell is gonna wanna play with a guy that shoots as much as Kobe does. Odom had a breakout year two years ago. He hasn't been the same since. Laker fans better enjoy these offensive outbursts by Kobe. That's about the only thing they have to look forward to.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 01:03 AM) You're right, it sounds like you're hating. He sensed that he was hot, could make history, and did not want to pass it up again as he did last time. I don't fault him at all and applaud him all the way... You would be singin a different tune if with less than 2 minutes to play, and the Lakers are up 20, Kobe somehow gets hurt. I know he didn't get hurt, so it's really a moot point. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. I just don't believe in rubbing it in like that. And what really shocks me is how the Raptors didn't seem to mind one bit.

QUOTE(Tadahito Iguchi @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 12:44 AM) I know theres an NBA discussion thread but screw that 81 points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is Kobe better than Michael Jordan? I think he might be hes won 3 championships already...................And I wouldnt be surpried if he finishes with 5 more............ I knew this was gonna happen. Listen, when Kobe wins 10 straight scoring titles, 5 regular season mvps, a defensive player of the year award, annually makes the all nba and all defensive team "something Kobe didn't do last year", and leads his team to 6 titles, including two 3-peats, then we can talk. As far as comparing their individual games, Jordan was a better shooter, post player, much better defender, passer, a more efficient scorer, a better scorer overall, rebounder and a superior athlete. And, unlike Kobe, Jordan elevated the talents of those around him.

QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 12:43 AM) He had two men on him the entire fourth quarter. I am not saying two guys were directly on him but there was always a help defender very close. A help defender can sure as hell add alot of pressure and cause mistakes and he avoided it tonight. They would help initially, Kobe would pass, get the ball back, then basically go 1 on 1 with whatever scrub was guarding him. Listen, it was a great, great performance. I know it sounds like I'm hating. I just think the last 7 minutes or so of the game were retarded.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 12:17 AM) Dude they were freaking triple teaming him in the 4th quarter. The rest of his team is inept. Kobe scored like 27 points in the 3rd quarter and I think the rest of his team had like 4 or 6. They are f***ing terrible. I saw the whole game, and they were NOT tripling him in the 4th quarter. Even the Lakers announcers were saying how the heck are they allowing Kobe to do this to them. They were up 17 with 6 minutes and 13 seconds to go. The Raptors had emptied out their 2nd stringers without about 4 minutes to go. The game was no doubt over. I never saw that game, obviously. I'm sure Wilt did pad his stats. Doesn't mean it's right.

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 11:19 PM) I have to admit, I've been a Kobe hater a long, long time. But I have to finally give in tonight, he's the closest thing to Jordan that we will see for a long time. He's a crappy guy, but damn, he's unstoppable on the court. He makes ridiculous fadeaways look like a free throw. I feel much better now letting that out. Next thing you know, I might admit JJ Redick is a great college basketball player, NAH. It was a great performance overall. I just don't believe in distorting a game that's already over to pad your point total. I remember many times in where Jordan could've went out there in the 4th quarter in games that were already decided simply to pad his point total. I just don't get the Raptors mentality. I would've clobbered Kobe if he was out there trying to show me up like that. The game has really changed over the years.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 11:00 PM) Kobe has 81. P.S. He's the best player in the NBA. Not to sound like a hater, but Phil, Kobe, his teammates and the entire Raptor team should be ashamed of themselves. First of all, the game was over with like 7 minutes to go. Why is he still in the game? What if he gets hurt? Second, each one of Kobe's teammates refused to shoot the ball so Kobe could pad his point total. Third, the Raptors offered no resistence whatsover. You've got a guy out there showin you up when the game is long but over. They rarely bothered to double. Man, atleast make the guy feel it when he goes to the basket. It's like they wanted Kobe to run up his point total. If anybody tried to pull that s*** 15-20 years ago, they would've left the game on a stretcher.

Bill Cowher is due. Steelers in this one.

QUOTE(Pauly8509CWS @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 05:56 PM) I understand he said nasty things, but if you go to a sporting event, you should expect them. I'm not saying that its ok, but you should expect it. Exactly.

Congrats to the Steelers. And to think, the current hot streak they're on started with a complete ass whoopin of the Bears.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 01:39 AM) Wow and they're getting Jason Michaels as well; I'd just have Marte play in LF for a year, but I guess they want him in AAA to start 2006. Damn, I was just about to say this was a good trade for the White Sox. However, Michaels is a definite downgrade from Crisp.

That was quick.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jan 21, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) because civil adults don't act that way. when you swear at someone, you are escalating the conflict and inviting it to be taken to another level. that was unnecessary. the guy i heard on dan patrick's show who was right there (he was in the frame in a blue shirt) said davis's wife was getting stoked, standing up and cheering for her team. the guy told her something to the effect of "hey lady, sit the f*** down." if you tell me that, we have a problem. if you say it nicely, we don't. i'm not saying davis's wife was right. she wasn't. neither was axelrod. as i said, adults behaving badly. I can't count the number of times I've has some rude asshole jump in front of me while watching a game. You should be considerate of those around you.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 01:11 AM) Well, when at a basketball game, fans do drink, and considering it was his wife and child that was involved in a conflict, I don't blame him at all for doing what he did. When he's on the court, he has no way of knowing if the fan is drunk, or what they are saying to each other, but the moment the threat of any physical attack is apparent, then he has every right in the world to go up and question what is going on. I disagree. Unless it's obvious that she's in immediate danger, which in this case she clearly wasn't, there's no need to jump into the stands. What was the guy gonna do? Beat the crap out of her in front of 20,000 people? She was the one who got into his face. Again, unless it's obvious a physical confrontation is going on, there's no need to jump into the stands like that. She was in his face. Not the other way around.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2006 -> 10:06 PM) Did anyone ask him if they're planning on bringing back any of the players who were traded away for the ring ceremony if their team isn't playing that day? That's what the BoSox did with a couple guys last year. If no one knows this...what's his email? I'll ask. Please let Arow come back.

I think Kendra Davis is at fault. A fan has the right to cheer or boo whoever the hell they want. Should you swear? Probably not. But swearing goes on at sporting events all over the country. I remember going to Bulls games in the late 80's/early 90's. The language was over the top. Especially when the Pistons and Knicks came to town. That's just the way it is. If you're the wife or parent or whatever of a player, and you get easily offended if a fan is saying negative things about whoever, stay home and watch the game. If your child gets easily upset if somebody says something negative about their father at a sporting event, stay home. Don't expect to come to a sporting event, especially if your husband is on the visiting team, and not expect to hear negative things. It's not personal. It's the way it is. I also think Antonio totally overreacted to the whole situation. He acts as if Kendra was being attacked or raped or something. There was no need to jump into the stands the way he did.