BobDylan

QUOTE(Soxy @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 02:17 PM) Except in words like neighbor. f*** neighbor.

I before E except after C.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) Can you imagine if someone had been taught that I didn't have to wear what society told me to, and I couldn't find a person who would hire me because of it? What I had never been taught how to study, because there were no need for it if I worked as a bagger at Wal-Mart, so why should they force it on me? What if no one had ever instilled work ethic in me because you don't do homework as a trading floor liason? There are certian basic expectations that 99.9% of people are going to have of you once you exit high school. I see it as a necesity to instill as many of these as possible into the kids for their graduation dates. Out of curiousity, would anyone take my art seriously if I dressed for shows like a business professional? Well, the problem in my field is that there is very little to be taught. Most is up for open interpretation. As far as dressing like a business professional in the arts, it depends what kind of art. If it's music, you might get some attention (I think there are bands that already do it, however). I know Clinic dresses in O.R. scrubs. I know Buckethead wears a bucket over his head (go figure). The Vines wear white suits. Red Hot Chili Peppers wear socks over their penis's. Generally it's just a gimmick and the music is what counts, but for the musicians it can mean a lot. It's kind of like how I can write in only one space in my apartment. It's all about being comfortable out there. QUOTE(Texsox @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 02:04 PM) What we are talking about here is maintaining discipline and safety in the school. Eliminating gang colors and dress, telling kids not to show off their ass and breasts. Avoiding advertisements for illegal at that age products. Am I to take it seriously that Lennon would have been less of a songwriter if he couldn't wear a Miller Lite T-shirt, show off his ass crack, and wear a sombrero in class? GMAB Artists are bizarre people. It's extremely difficult, even for themselves, to say what makes them tick. Certainly the t-shirt he wears could have made a big difference.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:44 PM) Well taking that to the next logical step, why should we force kids to adhere to a basic dress code? Because it benefits them in the long run, just like teaching fine arts benefits kids in the long run. It teaches them what the expectations are for the great majority of them after school. I'd be willing to bet a vast majority more people will see a dress code in the future, vs using the fine arts in their future. Why should we spend time teaching skills to people that they will probably never use, while excluding things that they almost certianly will use? Using myself for fine arts, vs using your self for dress codes are two great examples of things that were complete wastes of time for what we want our lives to be. I have no problem with kids getting taught that kind of stuff, despite it being absolutely pointless for me, and for most people. But I also feel that learning how to dress properly for a situation is something that every kid should learn. There are classes that do that. Or at least I had classes that taught me how and where to dress appropriately. If they want to teach the kids these type of skills, take it to the classroom. The way I dressed never had anything to do with my artistic abilities as I look to write novels, but seeing art unfold all around me every day, I see where the appearance of ones dress style does matter. I mean, can you imagine The Beatles if they were forced to get hair cuts, or ZZ Top if they were forced to shave, or Picasso if he were told to make something the "general public" could understand or my favorite, if Bob Dylan wrote how his critics told him to write? A dress code is a disaster if you ask me. Teaching them how to dress in the classroom is not. They'll gain the knowledge (and likely in better detail and understanding) while allowing freedom of expression for those who may depend on it.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) My viewpoint on this has zero to do with art. Heck, I was big into music in high school. But frankly, no, I don't think a dress code is a social judgement. I find it to be the exact opposite - its both protecting kids FROM judgement, and further, allowing judgement to occur on more important factors like learning and art and music and the matters at hand. So you're for the arts, but against judgment? That's ridiculous. EDIT: Perhaps I understood you wrong. You are saying judgment should occur in the classroom, but only in the classroom?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:34 PM) I would have never taken anykind of class like that if it were up to me. I hated art, music, philosophy... all of that. I didn't get it, I don't get it, and I never will. I would have taken all totally different classes than stuff if it were up to me. At 14 should I have been able to say "no" simply because I didn't like it? Should I have been able to be different than every student in my HS, and say "screw that" to the fine arts? No, now you're skewing my words. Forcing kids to take classes "they don't want to take" is about the only thing the school system is getting right. It teaches them firstly, basic skills, and secondly, promotes difference. I hated math and science and that horrible accounting class I had to take, but at the same time I knew I was in there. If I don't try it, how do I know I won't like it? As far as you hating art, it's quite obvious then why we have different view points here.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:25 PM) According to some science is a social judgement, are you saying we should stop teaching it as well? According to other English is a social judgement, because not everyone speaks it, or speaks it the way that we do, should we stop doing that as well? Even teaching art is a social judgement because how many people ever do anything with that in their lives? 99.9% of people could care less about it, but yet people still insist we teach it to keep kids well rounded? How far do you want to go with letting kids do whatever they want? Should kids like me who thought things like Art and Music were a complete waste of time in school be able to decide that we don't want to take them, just to be different? I grew up loving the arts. And I hope to make a living from the arts. In the arts, change is everything. I guess in the business world change is death? Fact is, I hope I never have to wear a suit and tie to work. And afterall, I can only imagine where art would be if it had the same social standards as the business world.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:22 PM) So people's asses, boob's, and f*** you's are not a common site in school. Did you even read the article that started this? Oh hell... You are kidding, right? Not even slightly. How is telling a kid how to dress not a social judgment?

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:20 PM) Uhh.. did you mean why don't the mommies and daddies and the kids themselves work to change this...? Mom's and dad's can't do anything if a school won't promote change.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:19 PM) Why is it schools role to change things? My philosophy is that is a schools role to prepare you for the next level of life. If life is going to dictate that you are going to dress in some degree of professionalness at the next level, why should school teach you otherwise? Why should it be upto schools to make social judgements on what is and what is not appropriate for kids to learn? Don't you see that a dress code is a social judgment?

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) What you're missing is that these rules are there for a reason. Reason? What reason?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:11 PM) It'd be nice and all of the world was really that way, but its not. There are a lot of things that should be, but the fact is they aren't. Then why the f*** do schools sit back and not work to change this?

QUOTE(bmags @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:06 PM) when were you last in a high school, its an example in conformity in itself...might as well make the conformity on the schools terms. Kids are dumb anyways...but i hated high school, so my opinion could be skewed 3 years ago. The dress code was rarely enforced, but my school was basically a miniature college. You could take classes in fields you had interest in (and of course the ones you were forced to take, but I'm not saying that's a bad thing). And yes, kids are extremely stupid, but so are adults. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 01:11 PM) It'd be nice and all of the world was really that way, but its not. There are a lot of things that should be, but the fact is they aren't. Then why the f*** do schools sit back and not work to change this?

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 12:59 PM) I think you're missing the point. It's not about how much their clothes cost. It's the design of them, how they are wearing them, and what is appropriate in the learning atmosphere. I'm guessing that the main issue here is that if classmates see someone walking around with their boxers hanging out they are talking about that and not concerned with learning. I'm saying, which it has become apparent people are missing, that clothes don't make people smart. They don't prepare them for anything but the way other people expect things to be. Nobody should have to wear a suit to work if they don't want to. Getting the job done is the point of a job. That's the point I'm trying to get across. And if schools will promote CHANGE, then the way people dress will eventually be a non-factor. Sure if I want a job in a cubicle, chances are I'll have to dress in a suit and tie if I want that job. But if we start with the kids and teach them that appearance is moot, the word "professionalism" will have a whole new meaning, a meaning that is more fitting.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 12:55 PM) Bob, with all due respect, I think you are missing the big picture. A big part of our educational system is things the kids learn that are not in text books. There are habits and skills that kids will learn in school that will benefit them after they leave school, that have zero to do with something on the SATs. Things like studying, homework, dress code, etc promote habits, lessons, and skills that begin to prepare kids for adulthood. A dress code is a great practice tool for the fact that 99% of workplaces don't want your ass hanging out while you are on their time, and there is a reason for that. It isn't because the principal is mean, or out of touch, or racist, or whatever. Proper dress for proper enviornment is a skill that kids should learn before they are 23 and their boss sends them home for having their cleavage hanging, or their gut hanging out over their low-riders at work. School isn't just about test scores, its about preparing kids for the real world. I understand that. I also recognize that I should be hired by my qualifications, not by the shirt I wear. If you look at some of the richest people in the world, they got there by doing something different, not by conforming. If anyone would take a second and realize that difference is good (and it's a bit shocking that nobody wants to see it from this perspective as Chicago has a HUGE artist community, and not to mention one of the biggest art schools in the country, Columbia College -- a school that promotes difference and does a damn good job doing it) then perhaps the "real world" wouldn't be about "professionalism". Baseball players get contracts on account of how well they play baseball. This is the way it should be everywhere else.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 12:46 PM) Your perspective is self-conflicting. You say that looks are not important, and that difference in a classroom is good, but allowing different clothes as a manner of expression is good. Do you not see the inconsistency there? Difference IS good. Promoting the perpetuity of money and status is not. I do not see inconsistency. And I fail to see how you do. The clothes people wear is a form of expression, it's also a telling of their background. What's wrong with a kid wearing $200 pants and another kid wearing $10 pants in the same classroom? Should we also frown on kids growing up and seeing different cultures?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 12:34 PM) Which is one of the many reasons why a dress code, or even uniforms, are good. It takes that element out of the equation. You're not looking at it from my perspective. Difference in a classroom is good. The public school system has never understood this.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 12:00 PM) http://www.wikihow.com/Dress-Like-an-Indiv...th-a-Dress-Code More at link People who can express themselves through their clothes generally don't need a how-to. But then again, the people who are actually expressing themselves instead of looking slutty or dangerous more often than not follow the dress code. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) That's Ok. These same kids who think it is too big of a burden to follow a dress code in HS, are the same ones who still can't do it when they hit the workplace. All it means is more opportunities for people who do get it. Ruth Sherman, a Greenwich, Connecticut-based communications consultant whose client roster includes Deloitte, Pfizer and Bank of America, says common complaints about younger workers range from lame handshakes and poor conversational skills to super-casual attire and personal use of company e-mail. Some show up at job interviews in tee shirts. What the Gen Yers don't see, she says, is the meaning and value of gestures and other non-verbal skills that don't come through in a text message. "My clients are frustrated; a lot of them are throwing up their hands because they can't persuade young people to get it," Sherman says. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14576541/ Fact is, students go to high school to crunch numbers, learn history, and read books. Sure there is a dress code in the business world, but who is the public school system to tell us that success is had in the way you dress? Firstly, the richest man in the world and his employees worked a graveyard shift wearing jeans. Secondly, you're going to tell me somebody that is studying to be a painter or a novelist needs to know how to shake hands and wear a f***ing tie? The public school system has it wrong and they'll always have it wrong. They teach in a generic way and let the kids who can't learn by their system rot. Instead of worrying about what the kids look like or if they can see their ass crack, they should be worrying about the kids passing class. They should be looking for inventive ways to teach the kids who don't quite "get it". They should be embracing creativity and difference. Perhaps if schools did this, nobody out in the "job" world would give a f*** what you wear -- as this the way it should be. Many school administrators frown on bullies, they way they pick on kids just for the way they look. I agree with the administrators that it's a problem. But if you go out into the business world as a highly qualified stock broker and lose out on a job because you didn't wear a suit, isn't that the same bull s*** over again? Looks ain't important folks, that's the big picture.

QUOTE(bmags @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 10:13 PM) song to the siren is the saddest, awesomest song i've ever heard...well...up there...however...jeff buckley means a lot more to me. For a debut album, it was beautiful, and fresh, and sounded like early nineties but didn't sound like it came from early nineties at the same time. Timeless. But tim buckleys discog is a goodie thats for sure. For where my money is at, Asleep by The Smiths is the saddest song on earth.

How many colleges enforce a dress code? In fact, I can go to class in my underwear, wear a hat, not shower, not shave, and display beer and profanity all over my clothes and never have a word said about it to me. Kids learn to be adults in college, in high school they learn how to get to college. When people are forced to go to school, to tell them how to dress is fascist.

Sara - Bob Dylan Tiny Girls - Iggy Pop 300 MHz - At The Drive In Family Tree - Belle and Sebastian Everyone's a VIP to Someone - The Go! Team O Caritas - Cat Stevens The Magnificent Seven - The Clash I Belong to Glasgow - Ramblin' Jack Elliott Open to Ideas - Faces Oh Had I A Golden Thread - Pete Seeger QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 28, 2006 -> 04:59 PM) I cannot believe that I am the only one in here who has any classical, jazz or soundtrack music in their iPod. I do see one or two blues tracks, though. I'll make a bet that I have more jazz music than you. With 15,000 songs in my library, the odds that "shuffle" hits a jazz song is probably is about 1/100 when I can only put down 10. I have plenty of blues and soundtrack music too. A little slim on classical, but its there. Also note all the folk shuffle hit in my library, eh? QUOTE(maggliopipe @ Aug 28, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) 3. Tim Buckley - Pleasant Street Tim Buckley is waaaaaaaay better than Jeff. And most people don't know who the hell he is.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) And my real name is ... ok then lets try Gary Indiana. LOL You are roommates with Freddy?

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 09:20 PM) Bob, I think they were talking about you while you were gone If only they knew I really am Bob Dylan.

QUOTE(RX Bandits @ Aug 29, 2006 -> 02:47 PM) ahh the same article that dylan said "nothing good has been released in the last 20 years." sorry Bob, you're washed up. Have you not heard his last 3 albums?

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Aug 19, 2006 -> 08:20 PM) It was sooooooo clever, I never saw that coming. Such a JimHian move.