redandwhite

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:35 AM) In one week, we'll be able to call up some guys that will give us depth at many positions. Maybe earlier in the year Bellhorn would have made sense. However, I just don't think the timing is right for him. I still don't think he's the same player he was last year. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just a difference of opinion I guess.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:34 AM) Since we traded for him. Everyone knew Bellhorn was going to be released, so if we really wanted him, we wouldn't have traded for Blum. I just think that Bellhorn isn't the type of player that Ozzie wants on this team. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What kind of players does Ozzie want? Useless players like Timo Perez who aren't good defensively, aren't versatile, aren't speedy, aren't good offensively, doesn't take pitches?

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:31 AM) Bellhorn is a switch-hitter. Start Bellhorn at 3rd base against most righties and use Crede as a defensive sub for him. Start Crede against lefties. Blum would mainly backup 1st base just like Gload last season. He could also backup SS and 3B if necessary. Since when does Blum have to get playing time? Afterall, he is a bench player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The versatility for a team with two guys who can play all over the field would benefit not hurt this team.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:28 AM) Well, back to the original topic, I don't see much of a reason to make this move unless there was a reason to free up a roster spot. Could it be for a transaction in the near future, or is it just a move to free up a spot to call someone up with September call-ups? Do we have anyone not on the 40 man who might get promoted? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I apologize in advance, but one more point on Bellhorn. If Ozzie can't find a place on the field for a player who would have the fourth best on-base percentage on the team, then he clearly isn't playing with a full deck of cards.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:23 AM) Would you say that Crede gets to about 1 in 30 more balls than Bellhorn? I would say that's a conservative estimate. How long does it take for belhorn to get 30 plate appearences? On this team it will take him 8 games. -- Over those 8 games how many more hits do you think Crede would wipe out on defense over Bellhorn? Simply put, Crede>Bellhorn, despite what the numbers may say. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well it's all opinion here, my freind. Like I said earlier, I am a fan of Mark's.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:17 AM) I'm not ripping Ozzie for this, but if he had to choose between a good defensive 3rd baseman, or a below average defensive 3rd baseman who is very good at drawing walks....I think he'll take Crede every time. The last thing our team needs is another hitter in the .230s. Walks are good, but we need guys to step up and get a big hit. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Crede gets a hit how much more often than Bellhorn does? Maybe 1 more hit out of every 30 at bats? the White Sox aren't a small ball team right now, having base runners with a team that only produces runs by the way of the home run would be ideal.

QUOTE(Pauly8509CWS @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:04 AM) What about the former Red Sox, Derek Lowe? He cheated on his wife... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not nearly as much information has been made available on Derek Lowe, as it was made years back to the "Athlete of the Year."

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 04:51 AM) So wait, you worship roid abusers. Yet, have no respect for Lance? :headshake <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I worship steroid abusers? Steroids don't determine a persons character. Raffy never cheated on his wife, Lance did.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:08 AM) It's the best thing out there, but it's underground now. The only thing you'll be able to find on the net is 2000-2003 data. Not exactly useful. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is definitly the best thing out there, and how the comparisons were created.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:11 AM) Ahhh, okay. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I just misinterpreted what you were trying to say. But I can definately agree with that. I would rather see Bellhorn at 3rd base than Timo in LF. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Correct.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:09 AM) Where the f*** is my head? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why dont you go back to the White Sox board, you jerk! Your just a stupid White Sox fan who doesn't even know who Jose Vizcaino is! you.. you.. stupid idiot! butt head! :headshake

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:06 AM) Timo sucks, don't get me wrong, but I don't see how you can say that Bellhorn is better defensively in the outfield than Timo. Bellhorn has played 7 career games in the outfield and had only 1 start which was in RF... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stat...ontext=fielding But I do agree with you about Bellhorn probably being worth it regardless of his defense at 3rd base just because his OBP is so much better than Crede's. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your putting words into my mouth. Bellhorn makes more sense at third base than Timo Perez does in the outfield is what I was saying.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:06 AM) How do you compare a RP to a 3B defensively? That makes no sense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jose Vizcaino is/was a middle infielder. Was on a Championship Yankee team, spent the last few years with Houston.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:06 AM) Bulls***. Pokey was a folk hero last season. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, he did have a name that rolled off the toungue.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:04 AM) That's definitely not accurate. Last year, Bellhorn had a bad habit of just letting balls go right through his legs. Thus, Boston fans would start chanting Pokey after Bellhorn errors. My best friend's favorite player was Bellhorn, so I vividly remember when that happened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm, thats odd. I am a big Bellhorn fan aswell.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:02 AM) Well then who exactly did you mean when you said "Jose Vizcaino" did you mean Jose Valentin? Because he f***ing sucked at third. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I meant Jose Vizcaino. The point is that Chipper Jones, David Bell, Joe Crede, Mark Bellhorn... These aren't stellar defensive players, and Bellhorn isn't as bad defensively as some would think.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:01 AM) I really don't think he's all that great at 3rd base but either way, his OBP would be a huge upgrade over Crede's. Start Bellhorn at 3rd base for his offense and then use Crede as a defensive sub late in the game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not saying he's great, I mean as Kalapse pointed out he is compared to Jose Vizcaino. The fact of the matter is he's better than Timo in the outfield, Pablo at third, etc. and considering he's a guy who actually gets on base (what a concept) he would fit in with the White Sox.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 04:59 AM) I must have missed his good defensive player. All I remember were the Red Sox fans chanting "Pokey, Pokey" early during the season cause Bellhorn was a butcher at 2nd base last season. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> False. They chanted "Pokey" for no other reason that he would come late in games in key situations after replacing him defensively with runners on base and he would promptly end the inning ala Mark Bellhorn of 2005.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:00 AM) Jose Vizcaino can bearly field his position when he's pitching, how do you expect him to play thirdbase well? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's not the point.

QUOTE(Spiff @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 04:54 AM) Because he's bad at 2nd base, so multiply that by being 150 feet further away. That's why. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mark Bellhorn has been excellent at second base over the last two seasons.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 04:50 AM) Cuz he is. I remember seeing him play 3rd base when he was with the Cubs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mark Bellhorn is comparable to Geoff Blum, Chipper Jones, and Jose Vizcaino in terms of his defensive ability at third base. Joe Crede compares to David Bell and Tomas Perez.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 04:46 AM) Bellhorn would have to play 3rd base for us and he would be a huge upgrade on Crede's bat but he sucks defensively there. But if Ozzie can play Ozuna at 3rd base... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't understand why you seem to think he's so bad at third base?

Mark Bellhorn, has been one of my favorite Red Sox over the past two seasons. He always seems to catch hot in his first year with a team, and then cool off and while that came true once again, Bellhorn still hasn't been as bad as his strike out numbers and batting average would indicate. His on-base percentage is higher than every player on the White Sox other than Konerko, Iguchi, and Podsednik. Boy, is that a disgusting statistic to see. Anyways, I think he would be a great addition so long as he played everyday for Crede.

I couldn't care less about this positive urine sample; as a person, I see no reason to respect the guy, period.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 12:40 AM) Aight - my bad <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not a problem.