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QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 04:22 AM) I have to go with detroit. This has been one of the best finals in recent memory. Road team winning game 6 facing elimination? You can't ask for more. Four of the six games were double digit wins, game five was a one point game and it was the most exciting out of the bunch and yesterday was a 9 point win. I would like to see some more competive games in the finals. I don't know about you.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:33 AM) But he isn't and his overall AVG is good. Nice "what if" though... Your excuse is you see no evidence that it has hurt the teams chances to score more runs and that we have the best record so it's o.k. He has been thrown out at least 17 times on the base paths this year whether is was from an attempted stolen base or a pick off. 8 f***ing pick off should be enough for 2 years and we are not even half way through the season. I also do agree that it is a nice ''what if''. If podsednik had these same exact numbers and are record was let's say 30-40... i can guarantee you people around here would be pointing to those 17 times he has gotten out on the bases and they would all be mentioning how it is hurting the team. Wins make a world of a difference around here... and you should know, if you do not say something the majority likes...

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:35 AM) Start with the very first post of this thread and keep reading. This whole thread is revolved around the Lee trade. My bad, i did something i rarely ever do. I just popped in at the tail end of the thread without reading any of the beginning.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:26 AM) I have heard all about those stats. Pods got picked off today, yet we still won the game. Did it really hurt that Pods got picked off? Nope. Has Podsednik's stolen bases and speed on the base paths helped us more than his CS's and PO's have hurt us? I think so. So... if rowand was hitting .180 with runners on base up to this point and we still had this same record it would be ok? Or would give him one of you nicknames?

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:24 AM) Considering this trade was made several months ago and it has been discussed on here to the point of nausea, we probably should let the guy be a Brewer and enjoy the players that are White Sox. Did anyone other than you bring up carlos lee? I might have missed it.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:49 AM) Well, it was predictable that Greinke would own him. Does Howell throw heat? Then maybe Konerko has a chance.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:11 AM) Have Podsednik's CS's and PO's hurt us in the long run? I don't think so. I guess the 75% rule doesn't mean much then. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2607 That link helps explain alot of the negatives of stealing a base, along with the positives if stolen succesfully. One thing i have found out since being at soxtalk is whenever someone says a certain stat is crap they usually don't understand it or just don't want to believe it. I don't know which of those two you fall into with this. QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:13 AM) Carlos Lee is now with the Milwaukee Brewers. End of story. Who said he wasn't?

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:08 AM) I just don't know how anyone could think Podsednik hasn't been a huge addition to our team. We haven't had a good leadoff hitter since Ray Durham. I also believe you are reading too much Baseball Prospectus. Those stats are a bunch of crap. Podsednik's caught-stealings and pickoffs obviously haven't hurt us too much. Lol. O.k.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:59 AM) So Podsednik's .289 AVG and .363 OBP doesn't make up for the 7 or 8 times that he has been picked off? Then his 9 caught stealings... no. If you cannot steal bases at the very least 75% it is not worth it. That player is better off not stealing at all because it hurts the team int he long run. Sure he has converted over 75% of his steals but once you add in those 8 or so caught stealings it looks less than exciting to me. Another thing that has concerned me is his dramatic decrease in walks the last month or so. Six walks in a month time frame from your lead-off hitter is s***ty.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:52 AM) You discount the fact that his speed allows him to score from 1st and 2nd on hits that many other players wouldn't be able to. He scores from first on a double and from second on a single like anyone else on the team not named konerko, pierz, or thomas. Crede is slow as all hell but he seems to run the bases fine.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 12:04 AM) There are very few high schoolers that were very good players in their first year. Lebron obviously was a freak, and Garnett, Stoudamire, and Howard were pretty good. Everyone else was a role player at best. If you take out Kobe, who was pretty good his second year, everyone else took 3 years to really make a difference. This is pretty much true for the younger European players too, who are another major group that is affected that many here aren't mentioning. Most of these guys are even less prepared than our high schoolers because they either play against weak competition or get no playing time for their club. These guys would still be there in two years, you just wouldn't have to put up with those years riding the bench as much as guys like Milicic or Ebi. Because of that, not only would those players come in more ready to contribute, but the roster spot that the youngster was eating up can be used on a veteran player that can actually add something to the team. In the end, an age limit doesn't really hurt a whole lot, and if a 20 year limit were used, it should improve the level of play in the league, and prevent a lot of young guys that aren't ready for the league from throwing away their careers when/if they don't get drafted (or get cut when they go in the second round). This is how i feel about it 100%. I just can't wait until we get all of these european players over this year that have limited playing experience and are 18-19 based on potential. Wo0t... or lack there of.

Oh and about the holmes/cruise connection here is a rumor that has been going around. Sorry for jacking your thread...

Just because i want to post these some where... What the f*** is with the white arm pit?

This guy is still an idiot.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 10:37 PM) Are you surprised that he hasn't been around lately? He has been on today and made a post yesterday.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 10:39 PM) Dye is hitting .269 now. Pods gained 9 points on his BA today, he's up to .289 I am glad i didn't get all down on dye's offense the first couple of months. Lot's of people wanted his balls chopped off and gave him a cute nickname ''dead'' All that i really expected from his was .260-.275 and 30 or so homers which it looks like he will be giving us. The one conceren i had about him offensively was how he has hit right handers the past three years, but i felt playing here that should change. I have to also admit i never liked his defense even before we got him. His range was just too poor to me and how he nearly plays at the warning track gets old. His defense has been piss poor... all that i ask from him is hit the cut off man.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) Let me ask this... Jon Garland has a chance at 15 wins before the AS break. If he's sitting on 13 or 14 wins, and that's 2 or 3 ahead of everyone else in baseball...what else can you look at? He'd be on a pace to win like 27 or 28 games. Inning pitched, era, whip, and batting average against is what i would look at.

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 10:01 PM) with those stats i think buehrle should start. I also stated that earlier. Buehrle and Garland arnt strikeout pitchers either. So even though buehrle has been out performed by halladay this year you think buehrle shoudl start?

Pretty good read if you want to know what they have agreed on. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2091116

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) Well this argument should not be about what you want, but instead what the people who it affects want. How can you count how many High School players have made it and how many have not? How many college players do not pan out. I mean there is a significant risk in both. Do you think baseball should not be able to draft players at 18? Teams should be able to control their own destiny. If they want to take a player at 18, maybe he will be the next KG or Lebron, or maybe he wont be. But the same could be said about a whole bunch of college players each season. For every Jordan there is a Sam Bowie. Teams have the choice, players should have the choice, and injuries will happen at all levels. You could even argue that in the NBA they would have better medical access. Not only that, but teams are generally not very willing to just burn out their best youngest players. The only reason the NBA wants to regulate who can enter is because forcing them to play a year in NCAA gives them a free look and better chance to make a wise decision. IE They are risking players careers so that they can save money. SB Difference is high school has a place for the highschoolers and even college players to work on the things they lack. That would be the minor leagues. Once the nba gets a better minor league system ( not the cba or nbdl, etc...) i wouldn't mind as much when 18 year olds get drafted. Each pro team needs a minor league even if it just consists of 8-10 players. I was mostly talking about football and the injuries since they can happen at a higher rate and be more severe than practically anything else in any other sport. Line shot back to the head is up in the list for baseball but that is all i can really think of. Just for giggles here is a funny comparison... http://nbadraft.net/profiles/deshawnstevenson.htm

QUOTE(whitesoxin' @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 09:50 PM) Wow shut up, we're on a 6 game wining streak, 26 over, and 9 games up. Can't you just enjoy this? I am enjoying it. But i should shut up because garland could and should have had a complete game? One run apaprently makes a world of a difference.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 09:43 PM) Oh give Ozzie a break...Garland's going on Sunday against the Cubs, he had 101 pitches, Marte needed some work, the shutout was gone...it was the right move. He will have his regular five days rest and ozzie planned on having him go the distance i am taking it if he didn't give up that homerun. So not that he loses the shut out he suddenly takes him out because he has nothing to look foward to? How about a complete game? It could have potentially taken only two more pitches to get those outs... i do not see the harm. But i am also one that thinks moderen day pitchers are pansies and the most overated thing in baseball is a pitch count.

Garland should have completed the game. No excuses really. Other than that is was a great game all around.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 08:40 PM) Do you let AJ face Sisco? I dont know, i might get Widger. Although AJ calls a better game....so many decisions to second guess, so little time.... They are not pulling pierz in the 6th inning. The 8th inning maybeb ut it's too early at this point.