joeynach

Good luck Bobby, I hope you enjoy the set up role. P.S. For your sake I hope that roll comes with butter!

UPDATE My calculations have the White Sox committed at $108.85M to 16 players for 2011. This includes: Buehrle (14M) + Peavy (16M) + Jackson (8.35M) + Floyd (5M) + Thornton (3M) + Crain (4.3M) + Castro (1.2M) + AJ (2M) + Vizquel (1.75M) + Viciedo (1.25M) + Ramirez (2.75M) + Konerko (12M) + Teahen (4.75M) + Rios (12M) + Pierre (8.5M) + Dunn (12M) This does not include arbitration eligibility for Quentin (4.5M estimate), Danks (5.5M estimate), Pena (2.2M estimate). This does not include team controlled salaries for Sale (400K estimate ), Morel (400K estimate), Santos (400K estimate), Lillibridge (400K estimate), Beckham (600K estimate), Gregor Infante/Internal Bullpen (400K estimate). This includes the break even money coming in for Pierre (+3.5M) and the money going out for Linebrink (-3.5M). 2011 Payroll Commitments + Estimations = $123.65 (25 Players)

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 11:52 AM) im suprised this hasn't been updated, but by my calculations, i think we have 19 guys at about $124 million as of right now factoring in the arb raises, the re-signs and free agent transactions. throw in the prearb guys in beckham, sale, morel, a 6th bullpen guy, a 4th OF and we are at $127-130 million. is this about right? My calculations have the White Sox committed at $108.85M to 16 players for 2011. This includes: Buehrle (14M) + Peavy (16M) + Jackson (8.35M) + Floyd (5M) + Thornton (3M) + Crain (4M) + Castro (1.2M) + AJ (2M) + Vizquel (1.75M) + Viciedo (1.25M) + Ramirez (2.75M) + Konerko (12M) + Teahen (4.75M) + Rios (12M) + Pierre (8.5M) + Dunn (12M) This does not include arbitration eligibility for Quentin (4.5M estimate), Danks (5.5M estimate), Pena (2.2M estimate). This does not include team controlled salaries for Sale (400K estimate ), Morel (400K estimate), Santos (400K estimate), Lillibridge (400K estimate), Beckham (600K estimate), Gregor Infante/Internal Bullpen (400K estimate). This includes the break even money coming in for Pierre (+3.5M) and the money going out for Linebrink (-3.5M). 2011 Payroll Commitments + Estimations = $123.35 (25 Players)

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 06:21 AM) Next year, new payroll, but $4 million JR didn't have to pay Manny is sitting in the White Sox bank account. JR was quoted last summer about saving money some seasons to spend on others. If every last dime that comes in goes out like we have been told for years, the money paid to Manny could have been used this year or next year or 5 years from now. It doesn''t just dissappear. Insurance payments from Peavy's injury should not be overlooked in the extra $$ to spend conversation.

I love this move as well. I think we paid for a guy at exactly what hes worth and he will help us exactly where we need the help. Of course he has to stay healthy, but as you can read from my other thread this is something myself and others have been calling for. Glad we didnt let the good options slip through the cracks while we sort out if there will be some extra $$, this time we saw a problem and we found the extra $$ for it right away and addressed it. Kudos.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 05:14 PM) I severely doubt that KW and JR would allow the singing of PK to criple this teams ability to close and get outs late in games. It makes zero sense to "GO ALL IN" with the lineup and knowing leave an achillies heel wide open with that of the bullpen. I would have to assume KW has some sort of personnel in mind for filling the holes in the pen. Im just shocked that so far those haven't included the likes of Putz, Guerrier, Downs, etc becuase at the end of the day there are only a limited number of reliable relievers and this point they can all be had for well less than what KW has signed relievers for in the past (Dotel 2/12, Linebrink 4/20). LOL Guess I wasnt too far off, I just really felt like "all in" means "all in" not just for the lineup. Im happy the sox have made the move for Crain and I guess we will see on Wood.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) This is the price we are paying for signing PK instead of a lesser option such as Lee. Unless KW can move some salary, we're not going to be signing any $4 million relievers. I severely doubt that KW and JR would allow the singing of PK to criple this teams ability to close and get outs late in games. It makes zero sense to "GO ALL IN" with the lineup and knowing leave an achillies heel wide open with that of the bullpen. I would have to assume KW has some sort of personnel in mind for filling the holes in the pen. Im just shocked that so far those haven't included the likes of Putz, Guerrier, Downs, etc becuase at the end of the day there are only a limited number of reliable relievers and this point they can all be had for well less than what KW has signed relievers for in the past (Dotel 2/12, Linebrink 4/20).

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 11:28 AM) Jeez. At $4 million per year. Putz's contract looks better and better. Honestly with Putz and Gueirrer getting $4M a year I find it shocking the sox had no interest, or at least no reported interest in either, especially at that price. If the sox need pen help, and they do, what are the waiting for. Again dont let 4M get in the way of putting together a solid contender.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:06 AM) No to Guerrier. His FIP is pretty high since he doesn't really K that many and he always walks his fair share. He is a good GB pitcher though. However, as a bullpen arm, you'd want somebody who misses bats. Crain would be the better, cheaper option IMO. Fine by me. It would be nice for Kenny to make a good multi-year relief signing, he has had some poor signings in recent memory. Getting Crain for something like 2 year 7M-8M would look really good for someone that gave Dotel 2/12 and Linebrink 4/20.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 01:30 AM) Speaking of former Twins relievers, what about Fuentes for a third (or second if Sale is a starter) lefty in the bullpen? If this price is right im sure its possible. Remember most of the moves the sox make after the new year are made with falling prices in mind.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:36 PM) I would assume anywhere between $3-5 mill a year, both probably over 2 years (though I could see Guerrier getting 3, though I think the 3rd year would be a mistake). If that was the case I cant see why we wouldnt make a play at one of them. Whats $3M-4M to solidy a chance to win 90+ games when ur already spending $120M.

According to the link below both Crain and Guerrier, the two best relievers left on the open market, maybe not be looking to ink a deal similar to Benoit's with Detroit (3 years, 16.5M). These are probably the best two relievers left on the market so I would be shocked if KW didnt have any interest. Either one of these guys could definatly fill the void left by the loss of Putz and Jenks. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/guer...noit-money.html

While we like Cliff Lee leaving our League so we dont have to deal with him, if the the Yanks lose out on him they will throw $$ at relievers left on the open market. That will all but end the likelihood that the White Sox are able to sign bullpen help this off season. So which is it exactly that we want.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 12, 2010 -> 06:49 AM) Teahen and Jones worth 2 to 3 times that of Quentin? Really? Quentin mashes RHP. His OPS against RHP blows Teahen's OPS vs. RHP away, and if you saw Mark Teahen play RF, he isn't a big upgrade defensively over Quentin either, in fact, he may be worse. And don't even mention they will make approximately the same amount of money.Jones vs. LHP and defensively is obviously better at least all around, but he's also had 3 or 4 months in a row for 3 straight seasons where he did absolutely nothing. Ok lets settle the Quentin as a defender argument right now. There is no doubt he is bad, however if you look at his Rfield statistic it will tell you what you need to know. Rfield measures the number of runs better or worse than average the player was for all fielding. Basically CQ had a career worst year defensively last year, absolutely brutal. However, prior to 2010 he wasnt great, but he wasnt that bad. I would expect him to bounce back defensively quite a bit, you have to be pretty horrific to post consecutive -20 Rfield numbers. 2006: +3 2007: +12 2008: -2 2009: -9 2010: -20

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 12, 2010 -> 12:38 AM) Yeah, I'm definitely not saying 600 AB for him. I think in the range of 400-425 (playing 3-4 times a week) with Viciedo getting the rest (+ more AB at 1B/3B/LF) would be a perfectly productive solution in RF. I certainly wouldn't pass on a nice Quentin trade because of it. I think KW might be thinking along the same lines but with Teahen playing a more prominent role (hopefully not though). OMG if they move CQ becuase there is a belief that Jones/Teahen can do an adequate job in replacing him, both Offense and defense, then KW is stone cold crazy. You would be lucky to get any sort of league avg production on all fronts out of that fantastic duo.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 11, 2010 -> 11:02 PM) There's no question if you have to choose Andruw Jones at $3-4 million or Quentin at $5.5 or whatever he ends up with in arbitration that Carlos has 5X the upside....both are/were incredibly streaky, but I think Quentin can have a breakout year with more focus/pressure on Konerko and Dunn. I hope Beckham can get off to a hot start as well. Hopefully the offense takes off like the first half of 2006 and Morel can be this coming year's version of Brian Anderson, albeit with a 675-700 OPS instead of horrendously bad. It's pleasant to imagine a future White Sox team with Mitchell in LF, Viciedo in RF, Morel at 3B, Beckham at 2B and Flowers at C....we need to have some of those young players break through and become regular contributors like the Twins always seem to have (Valencia and Duensing last year) in order to keep the payroll at no more than $125 million. Ill bet you $20 Valencia comes way back down to earth this year. Probably like a .270/.330 guy.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 11, 2010 -> 10:39 PM) Which is why I don't think CQ will be moved. Me too.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 11, 2010 -> 04:34 PM) If it's ever known that you have money to spend on payroll, you'd better spend it or risk pissing off a LOT of fans, so you're right, it's always best to say you don't have any. I've used that trick on my girlfriend before This, of course, has nothing to do with whether or not they do have the cash budgeted. Great comment on the girlfriend. I think its also interesting to note that having $$ to spend is based on a revenue projection. If reality works out to have better results than projections than there should be more $$ to spend. What if season tix get to an all time high. What if the sox start the season 15-2 and the entire month of May gets sold out, etc.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) The problem with trading for middle releivers is the real good ones who are effective year after year cost a lot in talent and money. KW is probably going to have to pay a lot of money either way unless he wants to hurt another part of his team. He may be better off to wait it out. A lot of teams have to be running out of money and there are quite a few relievers still on the board. A bargain may be had. You have any names in mind that might be able to be had for less money later in FA. Probably not any type A's, but any ideas?

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 11, 2010 -> 04:03 PM) Merkin just tweeted that Kenny is really excited by the ticket sales so far (after the Dunn and Paulie signings) and if it keeps on going this way it may free up enough cash to again explore the FA market. FWIW! That would be good becuase now that Scott Downs has signed with the Angles, and I read that Matt Guerrer has an offer from Boston, the number of good FA relievers left on market is dwindling.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 11, 2010 -> 03:28 PM) You are absolutely right about that. There is no question that Pods was never the player that Victorino is, however it is interesting that Pods had a similar year to Victorino's last season, in the year before he was traded for Lee. He was about the same age then as Victorino is now, as well. Like Victorino, Pods had also just completed a year when his batting average and OBP had dropped significantly, while his home run total jumped. Victorino and Pods are both better suited as lead off hitters, not run producers, and perhaps K.W. thinks that he would be a valuable defensive upgrade and a better lead off hitter than his current left fielder. Are u saying Pierre+CQ for Victorino+Reliever?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2010 -> 12:12 PM) A lot of talk happens and rumors are out there that are true and aren't true. Cowley holds everyone else up to a 100% accuracy rate. He should live it as well. He's been about as wrong as you can be this entire offseason. Any idiot with a computer could have posted what he's posted this offseason. There really is no inside knowledge coming out of anything he has written. Plus hasnt it been proven that his inside sources at the white sox the last few years has been Oney and Ozney Gullien (and their tweets). Some reliability huh?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 09:08 PM) I'd say the real problem is that they extended him before seeing what they had. Its a risk on both sides, Teahen got what like 3.5M last year. What if the sox just go year to year arbitration and he rakes it last year, then his 3.5M bumps to 7M or so. Sox are on the hook for 4.5M so it just negated risk. Bad deal becuase he turned out to cost us games, not win us games.

QUOTE (kane0730 @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 06:40 PM) All the "in house" options for RF blow. And that includes Jones. Unless somebody outside these guys is brought in (maybe Ludwick?), it's going to be a huge downgrade. I actually think CQ is line for a huge bounce back year. When Jared Mitchell is ready you trade CQ. When your only other RF is Mark Teahen you keep CQ. When CQ averages 30 HR and 100 RBI you dont trade him for mediocre relief help.

I dont understand why you would want to trade CQ now, what to save 4M. You already spent $120 if you want bullpen help go out and get a guy for 4 or 5M. He is still a capable part of our lineup who at any moment can carry our club for an extended period of time. CQ still owns 162 game average of .251/.347/.488/.835 with 32 HR and 100 RBI. I know he sucks defensively but where else do u get that kind of production for 4.5M or whatever he is going to get in arbitration. Also how many teams can say they have a 6th hitter who averages 32 HR and 100 RBI. And you want to get rid of that for a reliever and put who exactly in RF, and who exactly is going to replace all that offensive production for your 1, maybe 2 relievers.