Marty34

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 09:21 PM) He's 2.5 months into being an every day big leaguer and has put up strong power numbers and hit for a pretty solid average. How in the heck are you guys basing your entire opinions on what he won't do based upon 2 full months of baseball. Basing it on his entire professional career.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 09:12 PM) Except he's still incredibly young and developing. With his bat speed, I wouldn't be surprised if he develops into a dominant offensive player in the future (and a relatively consistent one). The biggest thing to ensuring that happens is pitch recognition/approach and I expect that to improve with experience. I think he will make too many outs to be a dominant offensive player. I don't think he'll be a #3 hitter.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:42 PM) Overwhelming, you are going to get market value for him. Problem is, market value is probably 2 prospects, which really don't do the Sox much good when they are in the midst of the playoffs. Weren't you the guy wanting to deal Viciedo for a starting pitcher (or Youk) anyway? Seems pretty inconsistent and to be frank, both ideas as proposed are pretty terrible. Not inconsistent at all. If you get rid of Ramirez contract and trade for Grienke you have enough payroll flexabillity to sign Grienke. A top 3 of Sale, Grienke, and Danks for next year would be worth finding replacements for Viciedo and Ramirez.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:36 PM) Then who is gonna play SS? If the deal for Ramirez is as overwhelming as I'm lead to believe it would be by reading this thread, it doesn't matter.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:33 PM) You have no concept of what guys are worth. Ready to ship Viciedo out and now thinking no team would have interest in Ramirez. Ramirez might be struggling but he's an elite defensive shortstop with some pop and an overall solid bat. Dude won a silver slugger for a reason (and should have a few gold gloves). He's easily a top 10 shortstop in this league and when on (even factoring in his crappy start to the season). Wonderful. Get something for him then.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:29 PM) Meanwhile, Marty's best idea at SS this offseason was Brent Lillibridge. That would be working out really well. Sure, let's just stick Escobar there, we're only in the middle of a pennant race because we're "all in" again but now we want to save money we'll have to pay Alexei Ramirez 2-3 seasons from now. In the meantime, attendance for watching the Lillibridge/Escobar show at SS will nosedive to 14,241 per game. FIRE KW!!! You change your opinions so often it's impossible to figure out where you stand.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:26 PM) I understand your frustration, but why an absolute lack of patience No lack of patience really. At 31, I see this as the start of a downhill slide for him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:19 PM) He wouldn't make past the worst team in the AL. If there is that much interest in him then he needs to be dealt. Let someone else pay the $30M owed.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:19 PM) Is there a point when you stop complaining? I think that would really make everyone happy on here. I doubt you speak for everyone.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:17 PM) Yes. Who?

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 08:16 PM) Why does this matter at all? We're stuck with a(nother) bad contract.

You think any team would claim Ramirez if the Sox put him on waivers? I don't.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2012 -> 07:43 PM) Which means he's due Hope you're right. While I think Ramirez will improve this year I'm inclined to believe we've already seen his best years.

60 games into the season, Ramirez has a homer and 6 BB's.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 11, 2012 -> 07:12 PM) Then, we DEFINITELY would be looking at 4-5 years of rebuilding, and there's zero guarantee we'd get anywhere because we don't have a replacement for Viciedo's bat, nor do we have a solution for when we have to shut Sale down later in the season. Then next year, you can turn around and say KW was "all in" and failed again, therefore he has to go, etc. With or without Viciedo there's a decent chance at a long rebuilding ahead.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 11, 2012 -> 07:11 PM) I'm all for making moves this year to improve, but under no circumstance do you cripple your future to do so. Trading Viciedo would be exactly that kind of move. Honestly, I think starting pitching is going to be too expensive for our blood. I'd rather consider giving Quintana an extended look or call up Axelrod and then move Humber to bullpen. I think Danks will be more than fine as our #3 the rest of the way and Floyd will most likely turn around at some point. If so, we only need a 5th starter that doesn't completely throw away games IMO. I still think a move Youkilis makes the most sense, but obviously the price would have to right and Gavin would be a terrible overpay. The Sox future isn't all that much more sketchy without Viciedo than it is with. If you can get a Grienke for something other than Viciedo, do it, but if it takes him so be it provided they can replace his production this year (Youk.) Get to the postseason this year because Sale's elbow might just be start-to-start much less year-to-year.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 11, 2012 -> 06:36 PM) Sounds like a terrible idea. Who plays in the outfield then? Last I looked, Viciedo was one of the big reasons the club is where it is. He's 23, can rake, and is cost controlled for a long time. Trading guys like that, especially given the overall lack of any sort of position prospect in our system who could even come close to replacing him in the next year, would just be asinine. Well, who replaces Peavy next year? Anyway, I think this rotation could have a rough time in over the next 6 weeks or so if something isn't done. They should take full advantage of the season Sale is having by making every effort to get to the postseason this year. A top 4 of Sale, Peavy, Grienke, and Danks could win the Sox another title. Youk replaces Viciedo in the lineup, Danks/Lillibride replaces Hudson in the lineup and platoon in CF with De Aza moving to LF.

If you want to win this year deal Viciedo for a starter and trade for Youk.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 11, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) My stupid trade idea... We get Danks back for 4-5 starts, proves he's healthy, and we trade him to Philadelphia with a couple good minor leaguers for Hamels and Polanco. They get cost certainty for 4 years with Danks and don't have to worry about over-paying Hamels in the off season. We get a rent-an-ace to go along with Sale and Peavy and don't have to sweat out Danks contract for 4 years. Plus Polanco would be a very good replacement at 3B and he's not getting paid too much. How bad is this? Unfortunately, I don't see a team making the decision to pick up a 4.5 year obligation based on a handful of good starts for a pitcher coming off the DL from a sore shoulder.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 11, 2012 -> 08:17 AM) I think one of the Sox biggest problems is their upper deck is still considered and probably always will be considered taboo. They need some gimmick to get people to actually want to sit there. There are a few who realize the first few rows in the infield is a far better place to watch a game than the lower reserved or bleachers, but its a very limited number. Disagree. The upper deck is as populated as it's been in recent years. The lower deck (former season ticket holders) is where the issue lies.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 10, 2012 -> 06:30 PM) A majority of mlb teams don't have a problem with sub $10 tickets. Why do the Sox - or you for that matter? If they want to sell those tickets at $5 be my guest. Just don't discount them to $5 or you risk upsetting your season ticket holders big time.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 10, 2012 -> 06:23 PM) Your future season ticket holders come from the families of single game buyers. It's an investment in the future of your fan base. That's still not worth offering the deepest discounts to your worst customers. If they want to discount a split or full season upper reserve that's ok.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 10, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Sports tickets are like hotels; a perishable item. Sports teams should do everything in their power to fill their stadium every game. Even if it means $5 tickets in the Upper Deck for every non-premium series the entire season. It's bad business to offer the deepest discounts to your worst customers (single-game ticket buyers)

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 9, 2012 -> 05:08 PM) Well, the Cubs have some seats going for a penny, as do the Yankees. When you consider the person is more than likely going to buy a concession item of some sort, that nickel seat is worth a lot more than $0.00. Some of them are going to buy a souvenir item or pay for parking. No offense, but I don't think there is a more fiscally sound run franchise in pro sports than the White Sox. Chairman Reinsdorf has been running the team now for 30 years now and knows the fan base inside and out. They know better than any of us how to operate in a tough economy and make money.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) Ego? It will be lack of cash that stops them from adding. They'll do something, but I think it will be lack of trading chips that will not allow them to address the starting pitching problem adequately enough.