Marty34

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 12, 2012 -> 03:31 PM) You can't be serious. The guy was getting huge results starting - you think they pulled him for any reason other than his health? Or that they'd put him back in if they thought he was likely to blow out his elbow? He was too sore, struggled with the upped innings, they gave him a break, Ventura didn't have his coaching staff handle messaing well, Sale wanted back in and the MRI is clean, so now they will put him back in but under tight controls. How is any of that about "win now"? There's little chance this was a miscommunication. A more likely scenario is it was decided sometime before the season by the organization to let the medical staff make the decision on Sale. Herm told Robin and Coop and they made the announcement. Ventura said they were looking out for the best interests of Sale and not the team by putting him back in the pen. So it must be the opposite if he's back in the rotation, right? KW knows this "rebuilding" is keyed by Sale being a starter. Putting him in the pen is worse than him blowing out his elbow for KW's job security. If Sale is injured he can use that as a reason he needs more time. Kenny saying that he was swayed to keep him in the rotation by a call from Sale was pretty ham-handed and a way to deflect criticism if he does damage his elbow. I hope Morel and Viciedo don't have Kenny's number if that's the way he really goes about making decisions.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ May 13, 2012 -> 04:06 AM) Stop believing in what ESPN tells you. They are the favorite but this first month and a half has shown they aren't that much better. He doesn't believe ESPN. He has an agenda, wants to see KW keep his job at any cost.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2012 -> 06:50 PM) Even if the team has a shot to win...they need to treat the season like they don't. The most important thing this team can do this year is set themselves up for next year, by pushing the development of the guys they have as much as possible, moving as much bad money as possible, and figuring out which positions have guys who genuinely need to be replaced. If they happen to accomplish that and wind up competitive in late July/August...fine...we'll adjust things then...but that will mean we've mostly accomplished the "Development" part, because we're not competing if Viciedo and Beckham struggle the whole year and Sale goes down. Yes, set themselves up for next year. Next year they will need a top of the rotation starter, a 3-hitter, a CF'er to start with. Never mind catcher, third and second baseman. It is crazy to think they'll have a better chance to win next year under any circumstance. This year will be the Sox best chance to make the playoffs over the next three years. BTW, do Danks and Ramirez count as bad money now because they very well could by the end of the season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 12, 2012 -> 05:27 PM) I've said it before, but Detroit is a massive favorite. For the Sox to win, they need pretty much everything to go right for them, and everything to go wrong for Detroit. The Tigers should win the central by 10 to 15 games when all is said and done. Why is Detroit a massive favorite?

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) wha-whaaaa? Pretty clear the Sox are in win now mode with this Sale move.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) because he's not an idiot, realizes Sale is the one good home-grown thing we've got, and we HAVE to keep him to build around him. and you can't do either if he's in the pen. KW realizes this team is built to win now. If he's willing to push the envelope with Sale's elbow, wonder if anything is off the table. Might he use Viciedo or even Molina at the trade deadline to add if they are still in it?

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) 1) apparently our GM feels differently 2) then good luck building a future around the kid when he asks for a trade. 1.) The question is why does the GM think that way? 2.) If he asks for a trade he'd have more value than if he blew out his elbow. I agree with the decision to return him to the rotation by the way.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 12:04 PM) oh my lord. Sale SAID it wasn't discussed. he was TOLD. Sale shouldn't have a say in the decision.

You see glimpses of the line drive machine he was when he came up so that's progress, but it's that K rate that continues to be troubling.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 10:36 AM) sure, but before you make an announcement to the media you should probably talk it over with 1) the pitcher 2) the pitching coach 3) the GM. just seems like that would be logical. I'm sure this was discussed by Ventura, Cooper, Sale, and Schnieder before it was announced. It was an easy decision because I believe it was determined this is how it would be handled when they put Sale in the rotation.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 12, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) no one got punk'd except Robin Ventura. he made a call, too hastily, and it backfired on him. that's all that happened. Why do you think he made that call? Perhaps because that was the plan agreed upon before he had elbow soreness?

How is it that the plan for handling Sale hasn't changed when the manager announced he'd be the closer, 10 days later he's back in the rotation?

At some point the handling of Sale has changed. Before the elbow soreness I believe the plan was if he experiences any discomfort, he's going back to the pen. That's why Ventura made the announcement. KW steps in and says he's back in the rotation, why? It's the right decision given the precarious state of their rotation going forward. Also, I find it difficult to believe Sale was able to say anything to convince KW to make this move. KW made this decision regardless of what Sale said to him.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ May 11, 2012 -> 09:23 PM) The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if Kenny Williams really is on a short leash that would only get shorter if Sale ends up as a reliever. The twelve whole minutes he was given to develop in the Minors could be looked at as a contributing factor (whether it's right or not) to what would be another failed draft pick to top off the litany of failed draft picks from years past. Part II of that scenario would be that Sale as a starter gives the Sox their best chance at winning and being competitive. Without Sale starting, finishing with a respectable record becomes that much harder to do. So I guess the summary of that scenario would be that Kenny is acting in his best interests even if the risks involved aren't anything to sneeze at. It's hard to imagine that being the case, but with the way the situation has played out to this point, and thinking back to some of the behind the scenes activity that saw the light of day last year, it would be less surprising than it should be. :shrugs: It's almost like they had him take an MRI as a cover to get back in the rotation. Strange how everyone was saying he wasn't injured before he took it. Maybe the plan on how to handle Sale was predicated on this being a rebuilding year. KW sees they have a chance and changes direction. Definitely could be a sign he is on a short leash.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ May 11, 2012 -> 08:58 AM) Marty, quit asking to sit one of our only decent prospects in his rookie season at the age of 23. Your lack of patience is remarkable, even amongst a crowd that includes people looking to sign Peavy to a monster extension. To quote Herm Edwards, you play to win the game. Since Viciedo's a 3-year project no one can legitimately argue that benching him against RH'ers in favor of Fukudome for the time being will ruin or even retard his progress.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 10, 2012 -> 10:06 PM) Viciedo is one of the higher upside players out there. According to Balta, he's a 3-year project. How many 3-year projects are currently on MLB rosters?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 06:44 PM) And yet you keep insisting this team is built to win now, and should platoon its 23 year old LF with a 35 year old hitting .170 to win more games now. Well, with Peavy pitching like an ace it certainly isn't built to win next year. You said Viciedo is a 3-year project, how many of those are MLB rosters right now? If you can find any, I submit that Viciedo has the least upside of any of them.

Didn't see it in the thread, but MRI for sale tomorrow.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:47 PM) Yes. Hence the problem. They get stuck into rebuilding mode...forever, then the course gets short-circuited because someone decides it's time to win now. Just like you're doing every single post. If KW gets canned this year, I don't think you have to worry about his replacement trying to win now. KW has left the proverbial cupboard bare.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:46 PM) What the f*** does KW have to do with platooning Viciedo? Sometimes I think you're a very knowledgable fan, but then you go ahead and make some of the most ridiculously biased statements on this site. Balta brought KW into the conversation, not me. Blame B!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:36 PM) I'm not sure...but what I definitely don't want is to start a rebuilding process with 1 guy, fire him for not succeeding, then restart the rebuilding process with another guy who only has 1-2 years before he's fired for not succeeding. That's the losing franchise trap. Aren't most GM's who are let go in the process of rebuilding? We know the next guy gets more than a year or two so that's not an issue.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:28 PM) I'm all for resting Viciedo against tough RHP, but you do not under any circumstance completely platoon him. Then again, each time you make statements like this, I'm more convinced you are a troll. Your dislike of Viciedo is beyond unreasonable. We're talking about a 23 year old with 209 major league ABs, yet you're already to discard of him. Balta said Viciedo is a 3-year project, we have plenty of time with him. Also, I said "right now" or for the time being.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:28 PM) If management decided he was the best person to start a rebuilding process, then he should get at least 2 years, more likely 3, to develop that rebuilding process. And it certainly shouldn't be sabotaged by putting a 23 year old hitter on the bench out of spite. Do you want KW around for 2-3 more years to rebuild?

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:17 PM) You want to bench a guy against the vast majority of starters in the league? He's not ready to hit RH'ers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2012 -> 05:21 PM) He wants to do anything possible to justify KW's firing, and if that means benching a 23 year old against 2/3 of the pitchers in the league in favor of a 35 year old, then he can blame KW when they don't win the division and say that's a reason to fire him. You act like KW's firing would be a bad idea. Why do you want KW to stay around so badly?