Sale back to the rotation per KW, MRI comes back clean

[Heads22]

....a continuation from the Closer thread that I thought merited a new thread.....but apparently he could start again this year.

 

Daryl Van Schouwen ‏ @CST_soxvan

 

Sale is not entrenched in bullpen. Cooper and Sale told me today he could return to the rotation this year.

[caulfield12]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...e-to-start.html

 

There are so many freakin' contradictions and so much double-speak to cover all the bases that you can read this article and have no idea what will happen with Sale tomorrow, next week, next month or next year.

 

The general idea SEEMS to be that they're backing him off for now due to the soreness to let him recover, that Sale still wants to start this year and there's probably some sort of disagreement between KW, Reinsdorf, Cooper and Ventura about the best course of action.

 

Cooper sides with Chris (naturally) since he's his pitching coach and is supposed to be in his corner the most...seems pretty adamant in every story about this situation that Chris wants to start and the team is concerned he will break down if he continues down that path.

 

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...ws&c_id=cws

Reed to AAA, will be groomed for the starting rotation

 

 

But Ventura has no doubt Sale will be able to handle the change, even if his heart remains with starting.

 

"It's like in talking to him, mentally, he's ready to do it," Ventura said before the contest. "He wants to be a starter, that's for sure, but I don't expect him to go out there (what?)...

 

"He's a mature kid baseball-wise for how young he is. Just the way he acts and does things, the way he views his job and as far as the way he looks at his teammates. So I don't see that being a problem."

 

As for starting eventually returning to Sale's job description after the 2012 season, Ventura reiterated Tuesday that nothing is out of the question.

 

"Really, there was everything brought up. So it's all still out there," Ventura said. "I think it's trying to figure out what's going on for him and his future as far as trying to protect him the best we can."

Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Maybe the best thing for a young arm really is to jerk it around.

[justBLAZE]

Maybe the best thing for a young arm really is to jerk it around.

 

Edited May 9, 2012 by justBLAZE

[Eminor3rd]

Is this a joke? What the flying **** are they doing? A first grade class could run this better than these clowns.

[greg775]

He wants to be a starter.

He's been a success as a starter so far.

He knows his arm better than anybody.

START HIM!!

 

If he's not ready to start in the big leagues, start him in the minors.

Is it THAT difficult White Sox??

[knightni]

Give him a few days off, make him the #5 starter who gets skipped every now and again.

 

If he kills his ACL and has to have surgery, so be it.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Maybe they really are doing what my theory was when it was announced last week.

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,5373229.story

 

For now, Humber will be moved back to get some additional rest and Stults will start Saturday against the Royals at home.

 

Humber, Sunday.

 

So it's Peavy, Floyd (extra day of rest), Stults (normal rest), Humber (extra day of rest), Danks (Monday vs. Detroit, extra day of rest)

 

 

 

 

Sale was experiencing soreness in his arm, but as Sale admitted Saturday, he thought it was just normal soreness from his move to a starter.

 

"Like I said, it's just tender. It doesn't hurt when I throw. It's tender to touch and it takes a little bit to get loosened up," Sale said. "I thought it was just soreness. It was just sore to me and doesn't hurt or anything.

 

"They thought it might trickle into something else. I didn't see that at all. I just saw it as typical soreness after throwing. Like I said, those guys know what they are doing. They've been there and done that. You have to listen to them."

 

No MRI was done on Sale's elbow, and Sale doesn't believe his unique pitching style or mechanics have anything to do with the soreness. He has been pitching the same way since college.

 

A decision also was made that a trip to the disabled list was not needed. It was simply about managing Sale's workload, which the White Sox believe is easier to do with him coming out of the bullpen.

 

"Obviously, you are out there and you want to put 100 percent into every pitch because the one pitch you take a little off, it might be the pitch to come up and bite you," Sale said. "I guess putting 100 percent into 10 to 20 pitches is where I need to be for right now instead of 120 pitches."

 

"There were a lot of people discussing it, so it's not like we were winging it," Ventura said. "There was all this discussion and I'm sure that [disabled list possibility] is probably still out there as far as in discussing it to see if that would be the best way to do it. The biggest issue is we're trying to think of him first instead of us."

Scott Merkin, chisox.com/mlb.com

 

Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12

[justBLAZE]

Maybe they really are doing what my theory was when it was announced last week.

 

And that would be?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

And that would be?

 

To limit Sale's innings during the middle of the season, so he can be strong at the end, rather than let him pile up the innings now, and be shut down come September.

 

Say they are limiting him to 170 innings this year, or what have you, maybe they slow down his pace over the summer, and then stretch him back out again maybe in July or something so by the time he reaches September, he might only be at like 130 innings, instead of 170, and can finish out the year strong, instead of being fatigued during a playoff push, and possibly playoff games.

 

That was my theory when the news originally came out, so maybe that is their plan, maybe not.

[caulfield12]

That's all fine and good, but isn't the risk even greater you fall out of the playoff hunt in the middle months of the season because you don't have a strong enough 5th starter...or that you're tempted to put him back in the rotation too quickly again as a result of the team falling further and further behind?

 

Isn't 170 IP a bit too ambitious? Seems like 150 would be the more likely goal...but NOBODY knows what is going on or what goals the White Sox had in mind before the season started, let alone what their plan is for next week.

 

If Stults and Humber get lit up Saturday and Sunday, there's going to be even more pressure mounting to bring him right back or risk the season being consigned to irrelevance.

Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12

[justBLAZE]

To limit Sale's innings during the middle of the season, so he can be strong at the end, rather than let him pile up the innings now, and be shut down come September.

 

Say they are limiting him to 170 innings this year, or what have you, maybe they slow down his pace over the summer, and then stretch him back out again maybe in July or something so by the time he reaches September, he might only be at like 130 innings, instead of 170, and can finish out the year strong, instead of being fatigued during a playoff push, and possibly playoff games.

 

That was my theory when the news originally came out, so maybe that is their plan, maybe not.

 

Interesting. Whatever it is I would like them to come out and say it straight up instead of telling us they they don't know and 'we'll see what happens.'

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

That's all fine and good, but isn't the risk even greater you fall out of the playoff hunt in the middle months of the season because you don't have a strong enough 5th starter...or that you're tempted to put him back in the rotation too quickly again as a result of the team falling further and further behind?

 

Isn't 170 IP a bit too ambitious? Seems like 150 would be the more likely goal...but NOBODY knows what is going on or what goals the White Sox had in mind before the season started, let alone what their plan is for next week.

 

If Stults and Humber get lit up Saturday and Sunday, there's going to be even more pressure mounting to bring him right back or risk the season being consigned to irrelevance.

 

I just made up 170, I have no idea what their target is for him.

 

But I also am not dismissing the fact that his elbow is tender or whatever. That could have been a contributing factor to write up this plan. But yeah, some transparency would be nice to hear.

[hogan873]

He wants to be a starter.

He's been a success as a starter so far.

He knows his arm better than anybody.

START HIM!!

 

If he's not ready to start in the big leagues, start him in the minors.

Is it THAT difficult White Sox??

He's obviosly able to start in the majors, talent-wise anyway. If it's his arm causing the trouble, starting in the minors won't change anything. We still don't know everything, but there is definitely some concern for his health (arm) if they moved him to the bullpen, even temporarily. Maybe a DL stint is needed instead of flip flopping him from starter to bullpen back to starter.

[caulfield12]

CJ Wilson

 

2001 137 IP

2002 136 IP

2003 123 IP

2004 DNP (out for entire season, TJ surgery performed by Dr. Lewis Yocum)

2005 106 IP

2006 59 IP

2007 68 IP

2008 46 IP (http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/8/11/591405/cj-out-for-the-yr), Wilson misses the final six plus weeks of season for bone chips/bone spur surgery

2009 74 IP

 

2010 204 IP

2011 223 IP

 

 

PTAC will enjoy this amateur Dr. James Andrews-ish medical analysis of Wilson's future when he came down with bone chips in the elbow in 2008

 

http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/1/31/7434...-injury-circums

Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Give him a few days off, make him the #5 starter who gets skipped every now and again.

 

If he kills his ACL and has to have surgery, so be it.

Wait, he has a knee problem?

[Balta1701]

That's all fine and good, but isn't the risk even greater you fall out of the playoff hunt in the middle months of the season because you don't have a strong enough 5th starter...or that you're tempted to put him back in the rotation too quickly again as a result of the team falling further and further behind?

 

Isn't 170 IP a bit too ambitious? Seems like 150 would be the more likely goal...but NOBODY knows what is going on or what goals the White Sox had in mind before the season started, let alone what their plan is for next week.

 

If Stults and Humber get lit up Saturday and Sunday, there's going to be even more pressure mounting to bring him right back or risk the season being consigned to irrelevance.

Hell, after dropping him to 70 innings last year, getting him to 100 innings this year would be on a normal pace and 120 might even be pushing it.

[southsider2k5]

That's all fine and good, but isn't the risk even greater you fall out of the playoff hunt in the middle months of the season because you don't have a strong enough 5th starter...or that you're tempted to put him back in the rotation too quickly again as a result of the team falling further and further behind?

 

Isn't 170 IP a bit too ambitious? Seems like 150 would be the more likely goal...but NOBODY knows what is going on or what goals the White Sox had in mind before the season started, let alone what their plan is for next week.

 

If Stults and Humber get lit up Saturday and Sunday, there's going to be even more pressure mounting to bring him right back or risk the season being consigned to irrelevance.

 

I wish people would get "playoffs" out of their heads for 2012.

[Steve9347]

His coming out of the bullpen last night was unacceptable. If his elbow is screwy you DL him for 15 and bring him back on an 80 pitch count. We have a ready-made monster closer in the bullpen in Reed. I just don't understand this team.

[Steve9347]

He wants to be a starter.

He's been a success as a starter so far.

He knows his arm better than anybody.

START HIM!!

 

If he's not ready to start in the big leagues, start him in the minors.

Is it THAT difficult White Sox??

I completely agree with Greg here on everything save the minors. If he's injured, you DL him. If he's healthy, he starts in the bigs on a pitch count, because he's way too good to be int he minors.

[Cali]

So has there been ANY reports of an MRI on his elbow?

[NorthSideSox72]

This is hilarious. When they announced he was going to the pen, no one on the Sox (that I saw) was quoted as saying it was permanent. But posters on SoxTalk decided that must be true, so it was. Now they are saying it isn't permanent, and posters are all upset about the inconsistency. The inconsistency only existed in the heads of people here!

 

This makes perfect sense, just as it did before. His arm hurts, the added innings are causing stress, but he's not injured. So, let him ease back a bit, but still pitch and build up a few innings... then as the season goes on, if he feels good, stretch him out again. That way, you go from 70 IP last year, to say, 120 IP this year, and then he's more ready to jump to full-time starter innings in 2013.

 

Some guys can go from 70-80 IP right to 200, but not all, or even many. I mean, look at Chris - he's skinny as hell, and probably needs to build up some upper body strength. This was likely to occur at some point during the season (though I admit I would have predicted it to be later), but it doesn't mean he can't ever be a starter again.

 

[caulfield12]

There was a point where Ventura said that Sale would be in the pen for the rest of this season, but then he backed off of those comments again in the last couple of days.

 

"I enjoyed starting," Sale said. "I thought the transition was going well. I guess we'll see."

 

 

Sale, who was named the White Sox’ closer Friday because he had been experiencing discomfort in his left elbow — raising concerns about the rigors of starting on his arm — still wants badly to start.

 

And he might get another shot this season, even though manager Robin Ventura had said his move to the bullpen would be for the rest of the season.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...e-to-start.html

 

But posters on SoxTalk decided that must be true, so it was. Now they are saying it isn't permanent, and posters are all upset about the inconsistency. The inconsistency only existed in the heads of people here!

 

We didn't decide. It's what the manager SAID!!! And now 2-3 days later, they're changing their tune again. That's why people are getting upset. Cooper is saying one thing, Ventura another, Sale consistently has been saying he wants to keep starting.

Edited May 9, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

This is hilarious. When they announced he was going to the pen, no one on the Sox (that I saw) was quoted as saying it was permanent. But posters on SoxTalk decided that must be true, so it was. Now they are saying it isn't permanent, and posters are all upset about the inconsistency. The inconsistency only existed in the heads of people here!

 

This makes perfect sense, just as it did before. His arm hurts, the added innings are causing stress, but he's not injured. So, let him ease back a bit, but still pitch and build up a few innings... then as the season goes on, if he feels good, stretch him out again. That way, you go from 70 IP last year, to say, 120 IP this year, and then he's more ready to jump to full-time starter innings in 2013.

 

Some guys can go from 70-80 IP right to 200, but not all, or even many. I mean, look at Chris - he's skinny as hell, and probably needs to build up some upper body strength. This was likely to occur at some point during the season (though I admit I would have predicted it to be later), but it doesn't mean he can't ever be a starter again.

 

Even funnier when you consider that no one expected Sale to be able to start the entire season. Everyone expected either a bunch of skipped starts, or a time where he fell off and needed to rest.