Marty34

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:45 PM) Basically, KW has a free pass for at least this year. That could all change if Ventura's completely in over his head and the team starts off 10+ games under .500 in the early months. I think Ventura gets the free pass, KW is on the hot seat. This is the same team that was supposed to win the division last year. I think Sale will show top-of-the-rotation ability and will be an upgrade over Buehrle and Reed will make up for the loss of Santos. Beckham and the big money guys have to justifty Williams faith in them.

The one thing this shows is that the Sox don't value right-handed (maybe all?) relievers presently and they are probably right to do so. If he can get his velocity up to 95, he may have a chance to get guys out for an inning in the big leagues after a year or so in the minors.

QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 02:59 PM) Kenny's not off the hook. The payroll and roster still suffer and that's Kenny's domain. But if there were better options on the bench and Oz chose not to play those better options because of what the players make salary-wise, he simply was not trying to win. It was not Kenny's decision who plays and who doesn't. Oz made the lineups, remember. There weren't better options on the bench. That's why Dunn was signed.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 05:50 PM) Dye.Podsednik.Humber.Sale.Santos.Lillibridge. Gonzalez, Hudson on the minus side, not to mention the $4M for a month of Manny.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 05:37 PM) Why is it weird? Like he is trying to curry favor with the public. "Someone thinks I'm worthy of my job . . ."

Dick Allen is right in this argument. It's weird that Kenny was the one who made it public that he offered to take another position in the organization.

The Sox have the worst farm system in baseball, but had they not traded Hudson for Jackson, I submit their mid-term future would look much better. One very ill-advised trade.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 12:28 PM) Theo is smart to spend it now while he still can, even if the cost of young talent is far more expensive than it's been previously. I think it's smarter to let someone else grossly overpay for middling talent whether that talent is 18 or 28. The importance of minor league talent has been extremely exaggerated the last couple of years.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 11:49 AM) You do realize that international spending will be capped in the new CBA? Teams will only be able to acquire so much talent. A team like the Cubs will not be able to simply throws piles of money at Latin American players like they had originally planned. They will have a set dollar amount to work with, which will slow down their rebuilding plans. So now they are being proactive and going after the Cubans, because they can use their huge piles of money they've been saving to improve the talent base of their organization while they still can. Conception is far from an elite prospect, but he makes more sense than spending $7 million on a reliever or some other major league piece that won't help the Cubs win anything. . . . So the Cubs panicked.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 11:30 AM) The value of young talent is simply greater now and that requires a premium in terms of cost. Maybe he was worth $3 million last year, but in today's market he's worth $7 million. So people can call it an overpay if they like, but I'd rather recognize it as the result of a new, unique marketplace. Agreed that the market for young talent requires an extreme premium which to me says it's a place you might want to stay away from right now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 10:48 AM) But also less available because "outspending teams" for that talent will be near impossible. I think that's overstated. First, what alternatives will the international players have? Second, HS'ers won't be able to better their signing bonus by all that much by going to college. The HS'er who is worth an $800,000 signing bonus will be drafted in the appropriate slot now, not in the 12th round.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 10:51 AM) Theo is the modern day Midas Really. Theo's proprietary advanced metrics must see something in this 18 y.o. Cuban lefty with middling stuff.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) Because in a year you will be limited on how many dollars you can spend. If you're trying to rebuild and have money to burn, why not bring in as much talent as possible right now? Because next year the price for a similar talent will be severely discounted. Not really. The talent pool might not be as good, but that's all relative. A team that has the best draft when the talent pool is rated a C is still ahead of the team that had the second best draft. I don't understand how it is smart to pay a premium for non-premium talent.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 07:01 AM) What is an average #4 worth a year in terms of WAR? More than $1.75 million? If Conception's deal is for four years, then that's his annual salary. Is $1.75 million really that hard to exceed as a starter? Wait, this kid is 18! Do you know how many 18 y.o. pitchers in professional baseball never see the big leagues due to injury alone. This is a strange signing because if you wait a year a similar pitching prospect will cost you what 1/10th this price? Concepcion doesn't have the stuff to merit this price tag.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2012 -> 07:45 AM) How long it takes is irrelevant. We had a major flaw within our organization that is finally being addressed. We should all be ecstatic about that, because we've basically been trying to compete with practically no contributions from Latin America signings (outside of Cuba) since Ordonez & Lee. It's a miracle we've been as competive as we've these past few years all things considered and clearly it's been catching up to us as of late. Where the Sox get talent from is irrelevant to me. Dick Allen is right when he says this will take years to develop and will take at least that long to say if the Sox effort was successful. It's like the argument that the Sox don't spend on the draft. Maybe it's because they feel that they aren't very good at scouting amatuers. I think all the prospect gurus are trying to make the MLB draft as important to building a team as the NFL or NBA drafts. Truth is, it's not.

Seems every year since '05 the Sox have guys planning retirements or looking to move on. Guillen, Buehrle, Williams, Konerko. There's something not right about that.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) for the players collapse yes, they werent bad moves, which is what a GM does, make moves. What is your definition of a bad move?

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Rios wasnt gonna be good after 3 straight years of batting over .290 and driving in 80+ rbis What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Dunn was going to hit like he did after putting up the type of power numbers he has the previous 10 seasons What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Peavy wouldnt be able to bounce back and be an ace? is there anyway i could go back and look at the threads that broke the news when we got these guys, id like to see what people thought back then Your position is Williams is not to be held accountable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 02:23 PM) Unfortunately now, because of the failures last season, the roster is now worse on paper. Santos, Buehrle, and Quentin all put up solid years last year, and they will not be easily replaced. For that reason alone, the team could clear out the mess, and still fail to improve on last year's team. That's why this GM can't be judged on wins and losses this season, but instead based on development. I think the roster as it stands currently is better than 79 wins if Beckham, Dunn, Rios, and Danks play as Williams expects them to.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 02:01 PM) No, his fate relies on the performances of guys like Molina, Sale, Castro, and Viciedo right now, because those are the guys he's moved in to the org, and thos eguys won't be ready to be complete contributors for 2-3 years. They're not rebuilding fully, but they chopped $25 million off of the "Give Ozzie a chance to save his job if he wants to" payroll last year. Expecting them not to take a step back with that kind of budget cut is silliness. They might still be a better team because they got rid of one guy who was causing all sorts of problems, but that might not be enough. If it was Guillen's fault they should be better.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 02:08 PM) Hey marty were you on board when they signed Dunn, and acquired Peavy and Rios? All this KW hate is really getting old, those 3 guys were all once all star level players, and none of em were old or deemed washed up. How was Kenny supposed to know they werent going to perform with white sox? This is the dumbest argument of all. Kenny gets paid a handsome sum to evaluate talent correctly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 01:50 PM) Yes. Kenny getting 2013, with 2012 as a rebuilding season, absolutely must be a part of him not giving up the job this year. If JR is going to keep him on, then he has to have a chance to actually see this rebuild through. I don't see Kenny being brought back for 2013 if they are worse than last year. His fate rests on the performances of Beckham, Dunn, Rios, and Danks. They really aren't rebuilding.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 01:25 PM) That doesn't make sense, KW offered to quit and JR wouldn't let him... but now he is on the clock.... Do you think that if they are worse this year than they were last Kenny will be the GM in 2013? I don't.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 12:40 PM) If the Chairman is this involved in day to day operations, then you have no beef with KW, because he's not the one making the calls. I doubt many GM's can hire/fire the manager without approval of the owner. Guillen was the first to go, Chairman Reinsdorf has put Kenny on the clock.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2012 -> 12:04 PM) Actually, I thought KW should have resigned this season. Any GM who doesn't have the right to fire his manager with the crap that guy was pulling ought to tear up his contract. I doubt he has the right to fire Ventura either. I think Ventura was a Chairman Reinsdorf hire.