Marty34

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2012 -> 09:39 AM) If you quit making ridiculous statements, there would be nothing to pick on. Ridiculous statements like?

QUOTE (YASNY @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 11:24 PM) You have to remember that Wilder was a well respected member of the Brewers organization when the Sox hired him. Hardly KW's buddy. Once hired, KW put a lot of faith in him based on his past performance with the Brewers, which is what they surely had in mind when they hired Wilder. Because Wilder turned into a thief should not be a reflection on Williams. Hmmm, I could easily use a politically based analogy here but since this isn't the Buster, I'll refrain. At the very least it is a serious black eye on the Williams administration and deserves much more blame for the current state of Sox player development than it has been given.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 07:37 PM) Unless Dave Wilder f***ed up Rios, Dunn, and Peavy I disagree. I would prefer it if you stopped picking on me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 07:02 PM) Why? Even franchises doing spectacularly seem like they pull off what, 1 player who comes up the full way through the system from a central american country every few years? OTOH, The Sox philosophy of slamming guys up to the major leagues and then putting them on the bench for 1/3 of the season has happened over and over and over. That you are willing to defend the Dave Wilder era even to this degree says a lot.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 06:40 PM) What does this have to do with the topic at hand other than "I want to rip on Kenny Williams"? This has nothing to do with rushing players. Your outrage at Dave Wilder should be 100x that of your outrage at Guillen for the state of White Sox player development.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 06:13 PM) And you absolutely cannot put yourself in a position of needing key contributions from a position and then benching the person you need to develop long term because they're not performing (or because the manager has confusing grudges/plays favorites)...which is exactly what the Sox have been doing. Repeatedly. . . . Or the farm system being in disarray in part because the GM's buddy was purposely signing prospects who had no chance at becoming major league players in order to embezzle money.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 06:13 PM) But there is one thing you can say...if you don't give guys enough time in the minors...it might not hurt their careers overall...but the biggest impact will be that it weakens them in their first year or two while they develop in the bigs. This is scout speak, something that might be true, but is far from a certainty.

Anyone who says they know the optimal amount of time a player needs in the minors is lying.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 04:50 PM) Sale, Stewart, Beckham, Morel to some extent, Reed, Hudson. You continue to insist that they need to rush Molina when he ought to be at least 1.5 years away from his big league debut if everything goes well. You can't prove to me any of these guys were rushed.

Who have they rushed?

Regarding what that scout said, if the Sox are right about Sale and Molina being top-of the-rotation starters and Viciedo being an impact bat the heavy lifting of the rebuilding might just be over.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) The starting pitching should carry them that far unless Danks gets hurt. If you think Sale is one of the young guys who will develop slowly I don't think the SP is good enough by itself to carry them to 78 wins. His slow development would leave a large hole in that rotation. In my view he is the wildcard on next year's team. If he performs as is hoped, the rotation is solid and I think they will hit enough to compete in the central.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 01:12 PM) Ill go with 78-84 actually. 90 seems a bit much unless people get hurt. But I'm assuming dunn and rios disappoint, the young guys develop slowly, and the manager spends a while flailing. If Dunn and Rios disappoint AND the young guys develop slowly 78 wins is a stretch.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 12:51 PM) See, even if Fukudome has a solid season for him, he's not going to turn this team into a contender. You know what might? Viciedo developing into a legit middle of the order hitter, the kind who other teams will fear. But we keep seeing our manager hide the kids from people to get the backup at bats, and Morel in particular said that really screwed with him last year. If Viciedo doesn't hammer the ball, then Fukudome putting up a .355 Obp won't make this team competitive. Play the kid. You have them pegged at 90 losses, right?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:52 PM) But getting Rios off the books should be priority #1 for Williams. Not that I think you can get rid of him under almost any circumstance, but I can foresee a situation where Rios is too important to the offense this year for Williams to deal. I expect a solid bounce back year for him.

Nice misleading headline. Should read "White Sox and Dodgers' spring home." Sadly though I expect this from the Trib.

QUOTE (Cali @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 08:20 PM) For the Sox to win the Central only 2 things need to happen. Quite Simple: Have a hot April/May. Have a winning percentage above .600 vs. the Division for the season. Not doing both has doomed them the last few years. Unfortunately, the team as constructed would have to have SO MANY lucky things happen all at once to pull it off. It just seems impossible: A simultaneous comeback from Dunn, Rios, and Beckham. Jake Peavy having no set backs and pitching his ass off. Danks and Floyd not being the maddeningly inconsistent starters they've been all of their careers on the South Side. Humber proving last year wasn't a fluke and Sale making a seamless transition popping the gun in the upper 90's all season long (not the 93 I'm sure he's gonna top out at most of the season) Thornton being able to shake off the nightmare of early 2011 or Reed stepping up and dominating ala Craig Kimbrel. The 2012 Sox have ONE player they can count on to put up numbers a contender needs and that's Paulie. Everything else is a small to huge question mark. That's not gonna win you many games in baseball... That being said I am excited to see Reed, De Aza, Morel (see if that September was a fluke or not) and Viciedo growing up. Maybe not excited enough to pay to watch the games, but excited to at least track their progress Aside from Konerko, Lillibridge, and Humber nothing went right for the Sox last year. Unless the players mentioned above really can't play, I don't see why we should not expect a good bounce back.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 14, 2012 -> 07:55 PM) Or Valverde not blowing a single save. Yep. I just don't think the Tigers are going to have an easy time of it next year. Maybe it will be a postseason hangover or the wear and tear on Verlander. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic. Anyway, it would be nice for the Sox to have a solid April and see where that leads them.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Feb 14, 2012 -> 04:33 PM) Still have to play the games. Sure, things look dim. But an off-the-map young guy coming in and having a big year, it's not out of the question. We might not be taken seriously as contenders, but if our youth produces with this chance its been given...things could be a lot more exciting. Even more exciting than hearing managers and GMs rant and rave on a mic, if you can believe that. I'm just not on the Detroit bandwagon. Verlander is going to come back to earth a bit and while Jacob Turner probably will be in the rotation at some point, the rest of that rotation isn't overwhelming. In short, I think a lot more bad things can happen to the Tigers as compared to last year. I don't see their pitching staff putting the Sox away until September if at all.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:33 PM) Possibly, I've stopped reading a few threads because of it. You're not missing much.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:28 PM) Is it just me or are they having the exact same argument in multiple threads? Pretty much.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:00 PM) If you were firing him because of those 3 players, you fire him when those 3 players let you down in an "All in" season. The job from now is to get out of the hole that last year left us in, and that is a multi year commitment. Replacing the GM next year is like replacing a college coach after his first recruiting class. You have no idea how it will look in 3 years. We could win 60 games next year, then find out in 2 years that Sale, Molina, Danks, Castro, and Humber are the newest version of the early 2000's A's rotation, just destroying the league. The hole the franchise is in was created by the GM that is in place today. If last year was a fluke (for those three) my belief is that the Sox will contend. If last year was their true talent level, you're putting the guy who made the call to acquire them in charge of the rebuilding. It would be a reckless thing to do and should not happen. Schueler contributed Buehrle, Konerko, Garland to the 2005 team. Nobody was sad to see him go when he left, it was time.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 06:42 PM) THis year? Correct. It is theoretically impossible to evaluate the White Sox's future based on where this year goes. That's why a GM has to be a 2-3 year commitment at this point. The last thing I will say on this subject is to reiterate that if Dunn, Rios, and Peavy have bad years again there is no way Williams can be brought back as GM. You can't sell a rebuilding led by the same GM who mis-evaluated those three players by that big of a margin. If you think that's unfair so be it, but for the health of the franchise Williams would have to be let go.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 06:29 PM) Setting high standards make it easier to call for his firing. Setting *any* standard would be met with your objection.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 05:00 PM) I do agree with one major point. If Dunn and Rios continue to perform the way they did in 2011 and you hear more boos than cheers from fans at home games, something's gotta give with those contracts. They're going to have to do another Silva/M.Bradley type move to get them out of Dodge. Of course, if those two aren't around to kick around, Ventura'a a first-year manager and gets a free pass (more or less), that target really is pasted on KW's back. No way you can sell the fan base on the same GM who missed as badly on Dunn and Rios doing the rebuilding.