Marty34

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) There's just no reason to have him unless they think he can sell some tickets. Lillibridge is literally better in every facet of the game at this point, it's just a pointless move. Lillibridge gets the first chance at SS after Ramirez is traded.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) Going from 60 innings to 200 innings in 2 seasons is a roll of the dice at best. I think its effect is overrated. Besides, the Sox aren't going to win anything in the next 2 years.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) If I'm convinced he's going to be a starter, sure. But we dropped him down to 60 innings last year, which means he's got 2-3 years of building up his arm again. 3 years? No.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) And if he winds up back in the bullpen or hurt, that's a huge write-off cost. So you would not do it?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:27 PM) To do so would be a much higher cost, maybe $25 million, and we're not even convinced he can be a starter since we put him in the big leagues to try to save Ozzie's job. Split the difference between 14 and 25, say 20.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) If he did, you'd want to flip him for more pitching. He's not Latino. Even though I reiterate I am nothing if not Pro-Latino.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) Yeah it was, he guarantees himself $14 million even if he gets hurt, it would have taken him 5 years to get that kind of money. The time to do that with Sale was last year, but we insisted that he needed to go into the bullpen. You're against signing him for the next five years?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) He's already gotten through a full season and a half. It's already to the point where it's not that sensible for him to sign that Matt Moore kind of deal. It wasn't sensible for Moore to sign his deal either.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) And, why would Sale accept the long term contract? Because pitchers do get hurt.

The thing is if Sale is a #2 starter and Molina a #3 the rebuilding will be a lot quicker than people think. Speaking of Sale, I think it'd be a good idea to approach him with a long-term contract offer.

Can't vouch for the writer's cred, but another glowing scouting report on Molina.

The Sox are in this no man's land in part because they made decisions with their heart. Long past time to get back to being the heartless bunch I loved. Sentiment is for Chicago's other team.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 05:09 PM) This is a very risky trade for the Sox getting only 1 prospect that wasn't even on the map until last season and has barely pitched above A ball. The reviews on him are mixed. Kenny gave up a sure thing in a young cheap successful big league closer for that. Sergio Santos is not a sure thing. He's a middle-of-the-road American League closer.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 05:09 PM) I'm just curious what everyone is gonna say about this trade if this guy can't hack it as a starter and ends up in about 3 years merely a solid set-up guy ? If that's the case I think he'll be at least as valuable as Santos at that point. Probably more.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) At least KW pretty much trades pitching for pitching. Marty wants to trade every legitimate position player we have for pitching, leaving us with like 9 Steve Sax's. I don't think they will be able to get the premiere pitching needed by dealing Danks, Floyd, Quentin. That is why I advocate trading Ramirez and at the very least shopping Viciedo.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 07:58 PM) He doesn't like Latinos. Santos, Viciedo, Ramirez... I am nothing if not pro-Latino my desire to deal the above notwithstanding.

I understand the doom and gloom, but I think the Sox are in an ok position. If they can get that rotation in order over the next couple of years, in this division, and with their revenue streams, they should be able to rebuild rather quickly. Think about how different things would be if you added Gonzalez and Hudson to Sale. A good, cheap, rotation is a key to the Sox contending for a World Series.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 07:20 PM) Marty just doesn't like Viciedo. Trading Santos, a closer, is one thing. Trading Viciedo for a team in rebuild-mode would be pure insanity. I like him. He's a corner OF'er who I'd rather turn into a top-of-the-rotation SP prospect.

1.) Sox get solid pitching prospect for Santos 2.) Pujols leaving Cardinals has to invigorate Brewers/Reds/Pirates making Floyd more attractive 3.) Rangers lose starter making Danks more attractive. 4.) Didn't overpay for Buehrle.

Pujols leaving STL has to have the Reds thinking they can win that division. Bodes well for the Sox trade opportunities. Same thing with Wilson leaving the Rangers. Off the top of my head, here are the matchups I'd like to see explored: Tex/KC/NYY - Danks Cin - Floyd & Thornton SF - Ramirez Bos - Quentin ATL - Viciedo Payroll drops significantly and should bring back a very good haul.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 11:34 AM) The return of what? That's the whole point. The return IS who you want to replace these guys at some point. Some of you seem to miss the point of rebuilding. You are all about the demo work, but have no idea what you want to build after that. Ramirez is not a player you build around.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Ramirez? Viciedo? Insane. You have to rebuild around something - young talent, specifically. Santos was similarly young and cheap and valuable to other teams, but you seem to miss a very important piece of the puzzle here - Santos was easy to replace in-house. Ramirez? Viciedo? Who will replace them? I don't care who replaces them. I only care about the return.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 11:23 AM) Danks' value decreases even further if you wait until the deadline. There's now no compensation for teams that trade for impending free agents mid-season. Good point J4L. Marlins apparently won't pursue Fielder. Opening for PK in Miami?

Priority one for the Sox has to be acquiring young pitching while lowering payroll. To that end, the next guys to go should be Ramirez and Floyd (Thornton has few takers). If the demand isn't there for Danks, keep until the break. To get a blue chip pitching prospect I advocate shopping Viciedo.

KW said payroll still has to come down a bit. Money well spent on Frasor.