Marty34

Don't need a 36 year-old first baseman, a 31 year-old SS, or a 29 year-old closer if you're rebuilding.

Not going to get much for him since he's coming off an injury, not too mention a year before free agency. I'd suspect they could get him at a discount if they made him a multi-year offer.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 09:37 PM) Correct, if the Sox are being hindered by payroll restrictions, and can only afford to extend one pitcher, the obvious answer is John Danks. I don't know. Buehrle will be cheaper than Danks and you can deal Danks. $50M for Buehrle + talent acquired for Danks is I think a better deal for the Sox than $70M for Danks.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) And that's why you trade CQ or Danks. Trade Danks, re-sign Quentin for a year and deal at the deadline if they aren't in it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) Me was not serious when I referenced the best player in White Sox history. It's apparent that you don't think much of Viciedo and want him traded. Just stick with that. Don't ask for comparisons because ultimately you're not going change your mind. To the contrary. I think he has a lot of value and would be able to net a very good pitching prospect in return.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) The Vlad ceiling comp is ridiculous. Unbelievably ridiculous and '93-'94 Thomas? There is just no basis for that ceiling. Nobody thinks that high of Viciedo.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) Look at the leagues they were playing in at 20 and 21 years old. Viciedo made gigantic strides in just 1 season, he's got a ridiculously high ceiling. What is that ceiling?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 04:37 PM) He's not untouchable if the perfect offer was made, but you do not trade him for pitching prospects. Even if you could get a pitching prospect for him of equal value, I'd much rather hold on to Viciedo. The injury risk for the pitcher would be insanely higher. Viciedo is a fairly safe player to think we can build around offensively. Why in god's name would you give him away for a couple of unproven arms that could break down at any time? You deal him because a corner OF'er is easier to find than starting pitching. Of course, pitching prospects are a risk and if the farm system had even average pitching talent I wouldn't be so willing to deal Viciedo. There's nothing down there to help a rotation that could soon look really awful.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 04:28 PM) He hasn't been qualified in 2 years. You asked what his ceiling is. His ceiling is HoF level. The big question is whether he can get to his ceiling. Vlad's minor league OPS was .989, Viciedo's .784. Nothing Viciedo has done suggests his offensive ceiling is Vlad-like.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) The guy that comes to my mind, from an offensive standpoint, would be someone like Adrian Beltre. If that's the case given his sub-par defense and position, he should not be viewed as untouchable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) My comp has always been Vlad Guerrero. Never took a ton of walks (except when pitchers refuse to pitch to him), always very aggressive, but killed the ball when it hit his bat. His peak doesn't get the respect it should because it was in Montreal at the peak of the steroid era, but 98-2007, .327 average, .980 OPS, 35 HR/Year. Viciedo has that in him if he's taught well. He might well have more power than that. Those are HoF numbers and would make him a top 5 prospect in the game (if he still qualified.)

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 03:54 PM) He can be one of the best offensive forces in MLB. Will he definitely do that? No. Is he risky? Yes. His ceiling is "One of the best hitters in baseball". Give me a name of a current player who you think his peak can resemble.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) Are we really talking about trading Viciedo again? Do you just not like Cubans or something? Just f***in stop already. How good can Viciedo be, really?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 02:52 PM) If next year flops, I'd be cool with a rebuild, but just not yet. If next year flops - last year was bad with the same cast of characters - what do they have left to rebuild with?

A Pirate blogger suggested switch-hitting OF'er Robbie Grossman and RHP Kyle McPherson for Floyd. Grossman's intriguing, McPherson not so much. I'm not adverse to getting a position prospect back in a trade depending on the pitching they get back from the rest of the players they deal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) So I take it you can't name any teams that have actually acheived what you want done, in the time period we are talking about? Right. I don't care to research it either.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:09 AM) So, you've been confusingly concerned about teh 2013 starting rotation and to solve that problem, you're going to trade Viciedo, leaving the 2013 roster with Rios and De Aza as the starting OF's. You don't see the issue there? You don't understand the plan.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:00 AM) So we'll keep the expensive one who become a free agent next year and get rid of the inexpensive one. Absolutely. Because Viciedo's trade value is higher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:50 AM) And Quentin will get hurt next year, so having no backup OF is going to leave us with a Rios/De Aza/Danks2 OF for at least part of the year. That's ok. Viciedo has questions too.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) While this is likely true, it's also worth noting that any return for either of them will not contribute this year, while Viciedo should do so. Your plan takes the team from, in your opinion, having little pitching for 2013, to having effectively zero offensive threats in 2013. Quentin could have a better year than Viciedo in 2012 so not having Viciedo next year might not be a loss. As far as 2013 goes they'd have money to spend to upgrade the offense.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) Just don't bank a $115 million payroll on that team, because JR will never come close to spending that much again since it would have gotten us nowhere. I don't understand what you'd rather do? To me going into the 2012 season with Sale Buehrle, a couple of good pitching prospects and a $75M payroll is appealing.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) Trading Viciedo is pure insanity. We have maybe one guy in our minor league system, Trayce Thompson, that projects to be a middle of the order bat and he's extremely raw and hasn't done anything yet to feel confident in him. We desperately need Viciedo to develop into a #3 or #4 hitter by the time Konerko's contract is done or we will be f***ed offensively. I get your love for pitching prospects, but trading Viciedo for them would be a fireable IMO. You have to give something to get something. Viciedo would be able to net a better return than Quentin. Hopefully they find a couple starters in those trades to go along with Buehrle and Sale. With the payroll in 2013 $75M they'd have plenty of resources to find an impact bat and fill a few other needs.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) Hello 3rd place again. Is there a better solution?

Assuming ~$115M payroll Buehrle comes back @ 4y/$56M Quentin comes back at 1y/$8M SP Buehrle SP Peavy SP Humber SP Sale Deal Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Viciedo focusing on pitching prospects in return. Beckham added to this list with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd? Leaves about $10M to spend on upgrades, 5th starter comes from return on trades.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) If you think a total rebuild will put us into World Series contention in three to four years, you don't understand baseball period. Teams don't completely blow it up, and get back that quickly, especially in MLB. As long as we're speaking in generalities, mediocre teams don't win World Series either.