Marty34

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 05:31 PM) And KW has now taken an action to resolve that problem...removing the single individual he judged to be most responsible for that dysfunction. If everyone in an office hates one worker and can't get along with them, the boss doesn't fire himself or herself. Problem is the spy got a longer contract than the new manager.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 05:30 PM) The GM deserves to know WTF is going on with his team too... Most GM's ask the manager instead of having a spy run up to their office.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 05:12 PM) Oh, so Kenny didnt know that until Coop told him? If you(not just you Marty, anyone. Ozzie, Cowley, etc) are going to label Coop a rat/snitch, lets talk here about what Coop actually said that could have affected Ozzie in any way. As far as we all know, Ozzie was welcome to come back and coach for his last year of the contract, and he didnt want to do that because he wanted guaranteed money. He spoke to JR about it(which was, in effect, going over his immediate boss to negotiate, which somehow seems ok here), and Jerry, from all accounts, told him he had to play out his final year. Ozzie didnt like that, and went ahead and greased the wheels for the move to Florida. So how exactly does Coop become a rat/snitch here? What exactly could he have told kenny that would have made the above situation happen? What could Coop have possibly said worse than anything Ozzie or Oney have said or tweeted in the past two years? Its as if you think that Coop gave KW some revelation that Ozzie is a verbally irresponsible person and a mediocre manager. We all could see it. KW/Coop isnt the one running around spreading rumors about Ozzie stepping out on his wife, or stories about what happened in the clubhouse. then you add on top of that the Sox having barely .500 years the past 3 seasons, what the hell could coop have possible said or done that Ozzie hasnt said or done himself? I'm making no judgement here. As I said in a previous post, Kenny does have a right to have a spy in the clubhouse, but when things go in a dysfunctional way he has to be held somewhat accountable for it.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 05:07 PM) Why shouldn't KW know everything that goes on in the clubhouse? It's his f***in team. He's the boss. He put of together. If he wants to sit on Konerko's lap in the dugout for every game, he can. Spies? Get the f*** outta here. Ozzie thought he was bigger than the Chicago White Sox. f*** him. If Kenny wants to have a spy in the clubhouse that's his right. It does add to the dysfunction of it all though.

Who knows what they didn't trust him with? Maybe the coaches talked amongst themselves about what a terrible signing Dunn was and Coop told Kenny about it.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) What did he rat and snitch on exactly? The story is that Guillen and at least some coaches did not trust Cooper.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 01:35 PM) If he is going to half ass the story with an obvious agenda? Yes. I would rather see him write nothing, than the one sided steaming load. I know the guy is pissed because Kenny won't give him the time of day, but how is that an excuse to ignore the massive amounts of hypocrisy in the Guillen story? He has no problems asking the questions of Kenny, why is he scared to ask them of Ozzie? I think it's news that Guillen went on record about his feeling about Cooper. I'd rather know information from one side than get no information at all. I think I'm intelligent enough to understand Guillen has an agenda and can take that into account when reading about this.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 01:16 PM) So to recap the questions that the truthsayer didn't ask... -If Cooper is a backstabber for being back with the Sox, what does that make Harold Baines? -If loyalty is so important, why didn't Ozzie take Greg Walker and Jeff Cox with him? -If Cooper is Kenny Williams' b**** for telling Kenny what is going on in the locker room, what does that make Joe for telling the general public Ozzie's version of what is going on in the locker room? -What happened to the promise about not writing about Guillen for three weeks? -The Sox had Guillen under contract for 2012 because he asked for, and received, the exercise of his option last year. When you factor in that guys like Joe Torre and Tony LaRussa have managed on to the last year of their deal multiple times, what makes Ozzie think he is more deserving of a deal than guys who will be Hall of Fame managers? -If Kenny Williams is "Hollywood" for a very short cameo on a Chicago themed tv show, what does it make Ozzie Guillen for going on to things like Fox and ESPN for TV coverage, not to mention the facebook account, the twitter account, and the webpages? Why doesn't Joe call out someone like AJ for going on TV and even on wrestling shows? -If Don Cooper is wrong for going over Ozzie's head to go to Kenny for an extension when he doesn't have a contract for 2012, why isn't it wrong for Ozzie to go over Kenny's head to Jerry Reinsdorf, when he already has a deal for 2012? Am I missing anything that any objective columnist would have asked Ozzie at some point? Again, don't understand the Cowley hatred. Would you prefer him not to report what Guillen thinks of Cooper or Williams?

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) I'm not sure I understand this whole "spy" business. Where there things going on in the clubhouse that Ozzie didn't want KW to know or wasn't telling him? Seems like that's a pretty big problem right there. Guillen was hired by chairman Reinsdorf. Williams needed a spy.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 10:04 AM) Let's spin this back around - how do you know that Ventura won't be a spy and that he was hired as quickly as he was because one of the interview questions by Williams was "do you solemnly swear to tell me the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about everything that goes on in that clubhouse, so help you God?" You are so full of s*** sometimes it's unreal. It would be beneficial to everyone involved if you put some thought into your posts. Cooper got a 4-year deal, Ventura got a 3-year deal.

Now it makes sense why Coop wasn't given serious consideration for the manager's job. Kenny didn't have a spy to take his place.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 09:34 AM) That is crap. There is nothing in baseball that says you have to go down with the ship because you boss is a raging lunatic, especially when you have that lunatic didn't bring you in. Ozzie took the ship down by going public with his "demands". Make your own judgement about working with a rat . . . Coop is Kenny's eyes and ears in that clubhouse.

Two things: 1.) If Guillen was so concerned with his coaches he should have brought Cox and Walker with him to Miami. 2.) Coop being called out as a rat seems to be deserved.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) I have to admire Marty's tenacity. ESPNChiSox Doug Padilla WOW! Really? Not gonna happen. RT @Marty341: @ESPNChiSox I'd like to see Ramirez shopped - he's not getting any better

QUOTE (kwill @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) I think the thread makes a ton of sense. This will put more pressure on ownership to deliver a more competitive product on the field. 1. Theo coming in with one of the largest contracts ever for a general manager. Rickett is very intrigued by sabermetrics and would imagine Theo has all the ability to make any moves he wants with the club. I bet the rumors of a trimmed down payroll are false. The cubs are in a mess right now, but a general manager with money who knows where to spend( draft picks and internationally) can turn around a franchise in a hurry. I would expect the Cubs to be very good in three years or less. 2. Consequently, the White Sox better get there act together. I know they only compete with the Cubs on the field six games a year. But, financially they compete with the Cubs everyday. They compete with them for memorabilia sales, eyes balls watching the television, ears listening to the radio, and most importantly asses in the seats. To say how well the Cubs do does not effect the White Sox is very narrow minded. 3. So what can they do. They can start investing in high draft picks, and start building more in Latin America. For once, I would like a Top Prospect to become a superstar. The only guy that maybe can do that is Dayan Viciedo. Great thoughts. Agree wholeheartedly that the Sox have to get their act together and I think they will. Also agree that a payroll cut seems less likely today than it did before. KW is more on the spot than he ever has been. Let's see how it goes.

This organization operates best when it's an underdog and Theo coming to town makes them just that. These next couple of years are going to be Theo v. Kenny as Ventura and presumably Sandberg settle into their managerial positions. Hopefully, this challenge will re-focus Williams and we'll see the results on the field.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 09:35 PM) Hopefully he's a good manager. He is not a good interview. In fact, he's a horrible interview which should please those who take sports SOOOO seriously. I thought Ozzie was funny as s*** and it added to my experience for sure. I don't think he's a horrible interview at all. It's just hard to provide answers for the real reason he was hired without throwing Guillen under the bus. I think it's clear in reading everything that's been written that Ventura was hired by chairman Reinsdorf first and foremost to get a dysfunctional clubhouse in order and provide leadership. Everyone involved in the hiring, Ventura especially, has to dance around that or risk Guillen going off.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 06:18 PM) This would imply the other teams in the league didn't have these same benefits available to them. The GMs not getting steroidal players weren't being noble - they were mainly the ones that didn't have money. Epstein within a few years will give the Cubs roster some consistent direction, year in year out. It's hard not to be jealous when you have your own FO churning out teams that each year have a wildly different bent. Theo may have taken the steriod-era to another level if reports of the Red Sox having a doctor address the team about proper use are true. At any rate, he has had a Williams-like ending loading the Red Sox with bad money.

I don't know. Theo was a huge beneficiary of the steriod era.

MLB Network Theo "on brink" of joining Cubs. Link to Boston Herald story: http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/re...&position=0

Just got a pre-recorded message from Ventura STH conference call tomorrow, will take questions.

@CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen Manto reportedly favorite over Laker to succeed greg walker as hitting coach 3 minutes ago via txt

No spanish speaking coaches amongst the new additions.

After reading the Bill Madden article, I think the Ventura hire is Chairman Reinsdorf's idea that Williams went along with to keep his job.

In a lot of ways, Konerko would have been less surprising than Ventura.