Marty34

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 08:44 AM) If they're not major league caliber starters...and they're just going to wind up in the pen...then it is a terrible waste to spend a full season at the big league level trying to develop them as starters. Not when 1.) they are the best options, 2.) the Sox aren't going to win anything in 2012.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 08:30 AM) It really doesn't help this team to spend a full year of 90 losses trying to develop Axelrod and Stewart only to cast them aside in 2013 when better pitchers arrive. If you're going to take the losses for a year (a-la 2007), then develop the pitchers you need for the next campaign. Don't waste a year of losses, then the losing becomes normal. There's a good chance that they prove they are not major league caliber starters not to say there isn't a role for them in the pen. The Sox need better starting options for 2013 and beyond than Axelrod and Stewart.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 07:46 AM) If we have to get salary down to $90 million or below this may be the only option...but a rotation with Stewart and Axelrod as your 4-5 starters is highly unlikely to be competitive next year. A rotation that includes Axelrod and Stewart is likely to lose 90+ games which is ok for one year, but they have to be replaced with better pitchers. That's why I advocate dealing guys like Ramirez and Santos.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) Just like Gordon Beckham was a no-brainer pick. I don't want to hear it. Stop with the excuses. For years it was draft position. That's been emphatically debunked. It's time to start to hit once in a while on your 1st round picks. Beckham wasn't the no-brainer pick that Sale was. Smoak and Jason Castro went right after him. Lawrie did too, but I don't remember anyone mentioning Lawrie as a top 10 pick at the time

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) Mechanics, frame, etc. There was risk. Even if he has the stuff. The warning signs were there. I'm not going to make a stink about this now. But there's no letting the Sox off the hook if he ends up back in the bullpen. He was a no-brainer pick where they selected him. Who should they have taken?

Just when you thought things couldn't get weirder. Per Bill Zwecker today:

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 05:33 PM) I think you put the best cheap, young team around them that you can and see what happens. But that's just me. I do too. I think the priority should be 1.) rebuild 2.) challenge for central. I wouldn't discount the idea of having Stewart and Axelrod in the rotation because it's not the best way to go about winning the central.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 05:11 PM) But Stewart/Axelrod in the 5th spot really is not a recipe for challenging for the Central. I'd rather rebuild than plan to challenge for the central with this group.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 04:22 PM) Wow you guys really think we won't see Floyd OR Danks back? We better be getting somebody REALLY good for them. I think there will may be better pitchers on the trade market that will limit what they will be able to get in return.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) Floyd/Humber/Danks/Peavy/Sale doesn't leave room for Buehrle Probably won't see Floyd or Danks, doesn't mean we'll see Buehrle back though.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Absolutely. I assume the kids will be Dayan, Flowers, Sale, Stewart, Reed, Escobar, and a pen arm or two. Yep. Even with the snide remarks, it's the right thing to do.

Phil Rogers What kids? RT pgammo Ken Williams says "we're going to let the kids play," will know what they have in mid-season, young culture coming 1 minute ago Phil is right for once.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) pgammo Peter Gammons Ken Williams says "we're going to let the kids play," will know what they have in mid-season, young culture coming 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply Comment makes me think payroll will be $90M or less. It is the right decision in my opinion.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 01:23 PM) Rebuilding this mess will be a daunting enough task as it is. But sweet f***ing jesus christ. You want to trade Ramirez, Santos and just about our entire starting staff, sign Scott Kazmir, and build around a guy that just hit .159, a perennial lazy, underachieving bum and Jake Prior? This would be the worst rebuild ever if you were in charge. Didn't you agree with my idea for rebuilding not too long ago?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) So who is taking on Dunn, Peavy, and Rios? Rebuild around them. I've written it in other threads so I won't bother everybody by doing it again.

The idea of a reclamation project for a guy who was released mid-season is to sign him to a minor league contract.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) With $50 million dead dollars on the roster, it is impossible. Not impossible at all.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) They aren't dealing Alexei unless this team goes into a complete sell mode. Well . . . It's not at all far-fetched that they do go into "complete sell mode" in my opinion.

I'd like to see the Sox sign Scott Kazmir as a reclamation project. He fits the criteria that Williams uses and the Sox rotation should have openings. Those openings and Cooper's reputation might make the Sox the preferred destination for starting pitchers who need to bounce back.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) WTF? They can say they could deal Ramirez because their #1 prospect is Escobar.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) Because listing him highly devalues Alexei since it convinces everyone that the Sox must move Alexei to bring in their hot young prospect. Ergo, the Sox are trying to destroy Alexei's trade value, to make sure that they get a bad deal for him. KW is on the Ozzie Guillen path of wanting to be fired, and he's going to make that happen. Easier to explain trade to fans. I don't think that's the case as Mayo doesn't work for the Sox, but it would make a lot more sense than trying to build Escobar's trade value. The Sox aren't in "trade prospect" mode.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 12:19 PM) Trying to turn him into trade-fodder? More likely trying to pave the way for a Ramirez trade.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 08:13 AM) I don't blame him for being upset, he has shown us what kind of playing time he needs to be a better player, and Ozzie didn't give it to him. Guillen deserves blame for no playoff appearances the last three years. The last thing he deserves blame for however is not playing Vizquel enough last year.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 2, 2011 -> 06:17 PM) Irrelevant. I'm looking long-term here. We desperately need an infusion of talent. Whether it be SP or position player. The relievers are for the 5th round. You said the Sale pick will be a failure if he doesn't make a successful transition to a starter. I see a whole lot of mediocre-to-bad taken in the 10 picks after him to the point where if at worse he is a nasty LH reliever I think he'll surpass those taken in the 10 picks after.

Look at the 10 or so picks after Sale. Are you disappointed the Sox didn't take any of those instead?