Marty34

Sale and Peavy's performances will determine if the 2012 team can compete for a division title.

If I'm not mistaking, Adam Katz is a Chairman Reinsdorf-friendly agent.

When Cowley didn't say anything I figured it was made up.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) I blame KW for putting us in the position we are in now where we are a 80-win ball club with a $120-million payroll (now it's obviously shrunk, but that's what we were). Yep. This is the result of bad GM'ing.

Aside from Molina, the other prospects acquired are likely middle relievers. That's ok considering what was given up.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) You are really stretching that comparison. Apparently Danks wasn't valued as much as we must have thought either and he got $13M a year to stay. I think what I am most upset about is the complete lack of firm and understandeable direction and the willingness to overlook past fiascos made by our GM. It serves no good purpose to let anyone know what the plan is.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:35 PM) I don't care how good your farm system is, if a guy isn't in your top 20, he's not very elite, even if it makes him a top 5 or top 10 in the White Sox system. Did you expect more for allowing the Jays the privilege of paying Jeff Frasor $3.5M?

My view is a very good cheap rotation is the most essential part of sustained excellence. If they can put that together in the next three years they will be in good shape.

It's bizarre to me that competing in 2012 is so important. The goal is sustained excellence.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) Plenty of international free agents have been given huge amounts of money and not seen the majors right away. Nobody in baseball thinks this kid is ready for big leagues in 2012...even on a non-contending team. Everyone complains that Beckham was rushed through the system, and then we want to invest 3X-5X what we put into Viciedo and deal with the permanent repercussions when he flops and loses his confidence? Obviously you're setting yourself up for the "trade Alexei Ramirez" comment. By all means, go for it. Why not just package Ramirez and Matty Thornton together in a "super trade" to satisfy Marty alone? You really want Escobar, Martinez or Tyler Kuhn to be our starting SS? Lillibridge? And you think you can just stick him there because he played the position "so-so" 2-3 years ago with the Braves and our team's going to win more than 70 games? Arguably, Brent has played much better because he could relax offensively, not having to worry about the stress of playing SS or a middle infield position (like 2B). Playing the OF is 10X more relaxing mentally. Trade Ramirez but sign Danks? What's the point? We might as well just deal Floyd, Peavy, Ramirez, Thornton, Crain, Frasor, Ohman, Konerko, AJ, etc., get it over with one fell swoop and totally demoralize the entire fanbase. Why are you obsessed with having another pitching prospect, anyway? Our AAA rotation (especially with Zach Stewart there) and AA rotations will be strong as they have been in 2-3 years, Last time I checked, we had 10 "super pitching prospects" about a decade ago and almost none of them panned out...the predicted dynasty never materialized until we acquired Jose Contreras and then it lasted for about 16 months, at most (2005/first half 2006). 1.) Cespedes will not get $30-$50M and start in AA 2.) The difference between Danks and Ramirez is obvious. Danks will be 27, Ramirez 31. 3.) There isn't one player on that roster, save Sale, that I would hesitate to deal to get a grade A starting prospect. As I've written, they've made nice strides so far shoring up the rotation.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 06:32 PM) First thoughts went back to five years ago when I was celebrating New Year's on another bridge (last night with seemingly 10 million plus in Shanghai), that time in Prague. Danks/McCarthy. Darned if he didn't do it again, albeit this time a much LESS larger scale trade in the overall scheme of things. First of all, Marty34, are you crazy? Have you ever seen Cespedes play? Have you even watched the video, which seemingly ranks right up there with the Dayan Viciedo Video of 2008? Now you want the White Sox to fork over $30-50 million for this guy? Based on a hunch or theory? Cespedes would arguably be playing all or most of 2012 in High A or AA ball, so how would trading Viciedo help at all? That would make our OF DeAza, Rios and Lillibridge/Jordan Danks. That's honestly what you feel is a good idea? Trading Viciedo "low" is logical? Why/how? Here's the thing, KW has added something like 7 or 9 arms (can anyone think of the others besides those listed below) which are of decent quality or above in the last 6-8 months, correct? Don Cooper is one of the top 3-5 pitching coaches in baseball, yes? Most of Soxtalk wanted to jettison Ozzie Guillen even before 2011 and we still got back two former Top 10 prospects from another organization for him. In Marinez, Zach Stewart, Frasor (his upside is obvious limited, but he did suck with us last year), Molina, the two kids we just picked up from the Padres that both clearly have/had pretty good stuff...we're at least making SOME positive progress to building up our pitching depth chart/s in AA/AAA. If nothing else, we're really filling up the back end of our bullpen for the short term with a ton of prospects. 1.) At 26, if Cespedes gets between $30-$50M he will not see the minors. 2.) A better pitching prospect than Molina is needed before I'm comfortable with the state of the starters going forward.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) They will have no problem moving the money, especially if they don't care if they don't dent the other team's top 15 prospect list. I hope they can. If they move him and Floyd the payroll would be at ~92M and they could make a serious run at Cespedes. Sign him and put Viciedo on the block.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Thornton's got to be next to go it seems Good luck moving that money.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) Agreed. f***, we could have Julio Teheran or Jameson Taillon right now if Kenny Williams wasn't such a f***ing moron. No. I don't think Quentin had that much value.

Best deal possible for Quentin at this time most likely. Why on earth he wasn't dealt at the trade deadline when there were teams looking for OF bats is a reason Williams should have been shown the door with Guillen.

Cool story. Merry Christmas everybody.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 02:19 PM) The fact that the only real trade piece for a top pitcher we have is Alexei. If that's true deal him. He's on the wrong side of 30.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) And SSs are so easy to find? What are you talking about?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 01:20 PM) We don't need him to have a HOF career, we just need him to be an all-star type talent and legit #3 or #4 hitter. He's more than capable of that, and considering we have only one other player in the entire system that even has that potential (Thompson, who's a huge longshot), we are not at liberty to trade Viciedo for pitching. I know offense is easier to fill, but we still need have to have some cost-controlled players to build the lineup around. Production from corner OF spots should be far down the list of priorities for a big-spending team like the Sox. Those guys can be found easier than SP.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 12:29 PM) I just don't even understand why we'd do that. Are we trying to be the all-pitching, no-hitting Sox of the last five -- largely mediocre -- years? A not yet 23 year-old with the talent of Viciedo is exactly the type of player the organization doesn't have enough of. Don't kid yourself the rotation hasn't been good enough either. Rios and Dunn are going nowhere and there is at least some hope for Beckham.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) No one would give that up for Viciedo until he has a full, successful season at the MLB level. The sox have messed around with him and moved him around too much. Alexei might..but then you have to convince another team to be willing to pay the price for a SS, and right now I don't see the team that's going to do so (braves included). If the Braves were willing to part with a Teheran based package for Alexei, everyone here would jump at it. But we can't make them do that, and neither can Kenny...so insisting that it shoudl happen is going to annoy people. So the Sox don't have what it takes to deal for a potential top-of-the-rotation starter, I can accept that. Viciedo's ceiling mustn't be Vlad Guerrero then.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 11:55 AM) Clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't keep requesting that the team trade for one. My contention is Viciedo or Ramirez might be able to bring the Sox that return.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 11:34 AM) Teams do not give up potential top-of-the-rotation starters in trades very willingly. I understand that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 06:15 PM) And we now have 5 starting pitchers under team control for 5 years. The middle of the rotation has been shored up this offseason, I'd still like them to deal basically whatever it took for one more potential top-of-the-rotation starter.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) It still doesn't seem prudent to invest tens of millions on a single prospect to me. Agreed. Truthfully, given the Sox lack of SP depth, it would be hard to see them spending the kind of money needed to sign Cespedes when they already have a potential corner OF bat like Viciedo. Unless they'd then move Viciedo.