Sox Post Winter Meetings

[Marty34]

1.) Sox get solid pitching prospect for Santos

2.) Pujols leaving Cardinals has to invigorate Brewers/Reds/Pirates making Floyd more attractive

3.) Rangers lose starter making Danks more attractive.

4.) Didn't overpay for Buehrle.

 

 

 

[Fantl916]

I pretty much agree. KW played his cards right on this one. He has assets that weren't #1 on peeps lists (the Pujols, MBs, Wilsons of the world) and the best way to build interest in those guys is to wait until theyre the cream of the crop later in the offseason. Now that the major pieces have fallen we are sitting in a nice spot. Those teams looking for pitching might first look to the As for Gio/Cahill, but the reality is is that they can acquire Danks/Floyd/CQ for far less than a Dan Haren type package that Beane wants which makes us major players at this point.

 

It will interesting to see where KW goes from here, but i will say that while i like KWs moves thus far this offseason, how this offseason finishes will define the Sox over the next 3-4 years and this will likely be the offseason that reinvigorates or breaks KWs tenure as GM. He cant afford to let CQ or Danks just walk for a comp pick, he cant trade Floyd for talents that dont contribute significantly since Floyd is as valauble a commodity in this market as it gets (solid WAR, affordable contract, likely wont cost half of Gio's price). This is his chance to add to the foundation for the period of time moving forward and hes gotta continue making sound decisions and not setting this team back any further.

 

[Marty34]

I understand the doom and gloom, but I think the Sox are in an ok position. If they can get that rotation in order over the next couple of years, in this division, and with their revenue streams, they should be able to rebuild rather quickly. Think about how different things would be if you added Gonzalez and Hudson to Sale. A good, cheap, rotation is a key to the Sox contending for a World Series.

[hi8is]

Think about how different things would be if you added Gonzalez and Hudson to Sale.

That is sad.

 

[fathom]

I understand the doom and gloom, but I think the Sox are in an ok position. If they can get that rotation in order over the next couple of years, in this division, and with their revenue streams, they should be able to rebuild rather quickly. Think about how different things would be if you added Gonzalez and Hudson to Sale. A good, cheap, rotation is a key to the Sox contending for a World Series.

 

It's a lot easier to think of Hudson in the rotation. Gio's been gone for a long time now.

[ptatc]

It's a lot easier to think of Hudson in the rotation. Gio's been gone for a long time now.

Do you think KW will ever deal with Rizzo?

[kwolf68]

Thrilling stuff.

 

In reality, the meetings did NOT go the Sox way.

 

-Poor value for Santos.

-2 and 3 are pure conjecture and hopes

-Four was set in stone when we put unmovable dead weight on the roster. Mark was not THAT much overpaid. Had we not overpaid UNDESERVING duds on our team already then we could have brought him back to help lead the staff

 

The winter meetings went our way? Can't wait for the encore.

Edited December 9, 2011 by kwolf68

[caulfield12]

And you even could have added Clayton Richard to that last 6 months ago.

 

That would have been a nice foundation. Obviously, the lack of depth at the minor league level has killed us. Detroit pretty clearly has to be the favorite heading into 2012, but strange things have always happened to favorites in the AL Central over the last decade. The division's up for grabs if Verlander goes down.

 

And the White Sox have always performed above expectations when nothing is expected from them, like 2000/2005/2008.

 

Obviously, a lot of our success is going to be predicated on Sale/Stewart/Molina and whoever we can get back for Floyd/Danks. You'd have to think it would make more sense to trade Danks, but you can't be opposed to dealing both of them, because it's 50/50 at best whether we can be competitive or not in 2013. It's hard to expect either Humber or Konerko to perform as well as they did, although you have to hope Phil looks better than his last six weeks of starts or we're once again behind the 8 ball.

 

Still, Floyd seems like the type of guy who's become quite comfortable with Cooper and the Sox. He might be willing to sign a slightly below market value contract to stick around in the future.

 

If Viciedo, Beckham, Dunn and Rios hit (3 of them, one can flop), then we COULD be contenders, but it all comes back to the starting rotation, as usual. And many are already predicting a Peavy career renaissance.

 

And, of course, there's a huge question mark now with Reed and Crain as the closer, and the probability with the market for LH relievers being so barren that they almost have to deal Matt Thornton, as he's a luxury (a set-up guy paid as a quasi/pseudo-closer) that we simply can't afford in a rebuilding phase. Which also makes the Frasor decision all the more maddening...almost $4 million on a guy whose stuff just looked "mehhh" when he used to feature a dominant fastball before being overused and abused the last 5 years.

 

Clearly, KW felt the risk of going with Reed/Crain/Frasor was worth it...in terms of adding another starter which they simply didn't have in the minors.

Edited December 9, 2011 by caulfield12

[The Beast]

Although I'm a bit upset that the White Sox lost Buehrle to free agency, I am glad that they aren't adding to the payroll to make things complicated. If it is truly time to rebuild, they may as well dump one of Floyd or Danks and try to revamp the outfield since Tank and Quentin have no business being out there in left and right together.

 

What holes do the Sox have left to fill?

[caulfield12]

Although I'm a bit upset that the White Sox lost Buehrle to free agency, I am glad that they aren't adding to the payroll to make things complicated. If it is truly time to rebuild, they may as well dump one of Floyd or Danks and try to revamp the outfield since Tank and Quentin have no business being out there in left and right together.

 

What holes do the Sox have left to fill?

 

 

Bullpen now, with Sale/Santos gone and Thornton on the way out. You've got Reed, Frasor, Crain, Ohman and probably Hector Santiago at this point...with Stewart/Molina as the long man/spot starter potentially. I think they would rather send Molina back to AA/AAA to start, so the more likely scenario is Molina as the 5th and Stewart as the long man.

 

Sale

Floyd/Danks (one or both traded)

Humber

Peavy

Molina/Stewart

 

There really aren't that many open spots or roster battles on the 25 man.

 

How much playing time De Aza gets, and whether he's the leadoff guy....that has to be the case if Quentin is gone. If you keep Quentin/Viciedo together in the same outfield, then you're stuck with Alex Rios as your leadoff hitter, or Alexei Ramirez.

Edited December 9, 2011 by caulfield12

[JorgeFabregas]

Anyone see the fangraphs article that suggested that Gio is overhyped and not as good of a pitcher as Floyd or Danks (among others)? Basically said he's valuable because of his contract, but not all that he's cracked up to be because of his walk rate. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have both Gio and Hudson.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/i...worth-the-hype/

[Greyone]

I understand the doom and gloom, but I think the Sox are in an ok position. If they can get that rotation in order over the next couple of years, in this division, and with their revenue streams, they should be able to rebuild rather quickly. Think about how different things would be if you added Gonzalez and Hudson to Sale. A good, cheap, rotation is a key to the Sox contending for a World Series.

 

But that is not fair to do because once you don't trade Gio who is to say you draft Hudson, or Sale. You can't just add all the former players you want because they may not have been in the system to begin with if move A was never made.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Bullpen now, with Sale/Santos gone and Thornton on the way out. You've got Reed, Frasor, Crain, Ohman and probably Hector Santiago at this point...with Stewart/Molina as the long man/spot starter potentially. I think they would rather send Molina back to AA/AAA to start, so the more likely scenario is Molina as the 5th and Stewart as the long man.

 

Sale

Floyd/Danks (one or both traded)

Humber

Peavy

Molina/Stewart

There really aren't that many open spots or roster battles on the 25 man.

 

How much playing time De Aza gets, and whether he's the leadoff guy....that has to be the case if Quentin is gone. If you keep Quentin/Viciedo together in the same outfield, then you're stuck with Alex Rios as your leadoff hitter, or Alexei Ramirez.

 

 

If Danks and Floyd are both traded and the return(for whatever reason, if i were KW thatd be a must) doesnt include a ML ready SP do you think theyd give Molina or Axlerod the nod as 5th starter....Unless Paddy and KW are absolutely in love with Molina I think he needs at least a little bit of time in the minors.

[caulfield12]

If Danks and Floyd are both traded and the return(for whatever reason, if i were KW thatd be a must) doesnt include a ML ready SP do you think theyd give Molina or Axlerod the nod as 5th starter....Unless Paddy and KW are absolutely in love with Molina I think he needs at least a little bit of time in the minors.

 

 

With KW, he's always eager to throw all of his acquisitions into the fire, with the exception of Viciedo, who has been nurtured along.

 

If they go into the season with Axelrod as a starter, it's suicide.

 

I actually think they'd be much more likely to pick up a veteran off the waiver wire/unsigned FA list than go to Dylan.

 

It certainly depends on Cooper's recommendation. There's no reason he (Molina) can't make tremendous strides in the next 2-3 months.

 

And I wouldn't absolutely count Hector Santiago out of the running just yet, either.

Edited December 9, 2011 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

The winter meetings went our way? Can't wait for the encore.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I was just suprised how little the Sox did. I'm glad they are not settling for the first deal they get offered (except for Santos I guess), but it would be a huge mistake to go in to the season with Danks and Thornton and Quentin.

 

I get that people want to trade Floyd, but I don't see trading him as a need. Danks and Thornton and Quentin will be gone soon. Floyd still has a couple years left, and is still possible to re-sign, so I don't think we need to push a trade for him as much as the other 3.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

What's the point of this thread? The Sox have made 1 small deal that's for the long term. It may end up being good or not.

 

That's the summation of where the Sox off-season is now. There are many personnel moves yet to be made so we have no idea what this roster will look like come April.

 

The only thing that I can say at this point is that I am glad that KW has shown, thus far, some patience. I hope that continues and he does more dealing in January than December.

[Milkman delivers]

What's the point of this thread? The Sox have made 1 small deal that's for the long term. It may end up being good or not.

 

That's the summation of where the Sox off-season is now. There are many personnel moves yet to be made so we have no idea what this roster will look like come April.

 

The only thing that I can say at this point is that I am glad that KW has shown, thus far, some patience. I hope that continues and he does A LOT more dealing in January than December.

 

Fixed.

[Eminor3rd]

Good perspective, Marty. Even if you think we could have gotten more out of Santos, we certainly got something we needed by trading from a position of depth. So far, tings are going according to plan, and no Mark Teahen-like disasters have occurred.

[RockRaines]

We entered the Winter meetings largely needing to trade Danks, Floyd, Thornton and Quentin. We accomplished none of this.

[fathom]

We entered the Winter meetings largely needing to trade Danks, Floyd, Thornton and Quentin. We accomplished none of this.

 

Yep, and there seems to be a lot of young arms available now that executives didn't think would be (Cahill, Niese, etc). Also, I thought it was a huge fail for the organization when very solid relievers are signing cheaper deals than what we foolishly gave Frasor.

[Eminor3rd]

We entered the Winter meetings largely needing to trade Danks, Floyd, Thornton and Quentin. We accomplished none of this.

 

I think that's a really short-sighted view. In order to maximize the return for those guys, we needed to let the market develop. Basically, you strike quick if there's more supply than demand, and you are patient if there's more demand than supply. In the case of SP this year, it is the latter. Wilson and Buerhle dropped, and now we have several big market teams fighting for Darvish. Whoever doesn't get him has to pony up for Gio or Danks.

[SOXOBAMA]

We entered the Winter meetings largely needing to trade Danks, Floyd, Thornton and Quentin. We accomplished none of this.

 

its only Dec 9th.. I'm sure KW set the groundwork for all of these guys to be traded.

[SOXOBAMA]

Soxfest is going to have a lot of fireworks ths year..

[RockRaines]

I think that's a really short-sighted view. In order to maximize the return for those guys, we needed to let the market develop. Basically, you strike quick if there's more supply than demand, and you are patient if there's more demand than supply. In the case of SP this year, it is the latter. Wilson and Buerhle dropped, and now we have several big market teams fighting for Darvish. Whoever doesn't get him has to pony up for Gio or Danks.

Its short sighted only because this thread about winning at the Winter Meetings. We didnt do much of anything other than alienate some of our fan base and declare rebuilding.