Marty34

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 01:09 PM) What that tells me is basically, "Yeah we still want to get that giant f***ing oaf off the team but still nobody is interested in giving us jack squat even if we eat that whole thing so we're just going to run him out there, shag him some balls, and hope he either motivates some team to offer a marginal prospect or, preferably, gets hurt so we don't have to carry his dead weight ass." I think there's little doubt it has to do with the Dunn situation and this is good tea-leaf reading on your part. Hahn is in a tricky situation here if they just can't release him. It's going to be very difficult to justify dealing De Aza if the return isn't at least 110% of his value while keeping Dunn and I don't think there's any way the Sox get De Aza's full value as long as Dunn is in the mix.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 05:33 PM) Because he's worth more than that, is the simple answer. It's likely they thought they could trade him or someone else, but haven't been able to pull it off for some reason. They didn't sign him last week. So to lessen his value by playing Dunn at his expense would be harmful to the rebuild.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) Of course you're trolling. You continue to add in De Azas outlier 2011 stint to make his numbers look better. Without that he drops down into the .740s for his OPS te last 2 seasons, and last year it was only .728. That guy can still be a solid contributor but he makes no sense as a guy hitting 4th or 5th an of course you didn't respond when people called you out for ignoring how much of an outlier his short 2011 stint was. Why did they choose to sign De Aza for $4M?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 04:36 PM) Actually by balancing the middle of the lineup with a lefty bat, which De Aza won't do because he's not a middle of the order bat, Dunns presence should be quite valuable for Garcia and Abreu. The team absolutely needs to break those righties up and De Aza will not be hitting 5th any time soon. Why do they need to break the right-handed hitters up and why couldn't De Aza bat in the middle of the order if need be?

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 04:25 PM) Again, paying ADA 4m to serve as a bench player that hits well enough to play ever day is a far cry from paying Dunn 15m to not play at all which is what we were discussing in the first place. Apples and oranges really. As long as the Sox are paying Dunn, I want his ass in the lineup, period. At the expense of the rebuilding effort. That is tremendously shortsighted.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 03:48 PM) Well the obvious answer would be its better to pay ADA 4m to be the bench player that can rotate into the lineup to give days off to young players that aren't used to the 162 game grind as well as provide backup to injury then to pay Dunn 15m to stay off the team or to play for another. A Danks/Dunn roster combination accomplishes the same thing at a savings of about $4M.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 03:40 PM) Neither are a part of the future therefore neither hold any future value to this team. Why did they choose to pay De Aza $4M then.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) Paying Dunn to not play gives you zero salary relief whereas playing Dunn gives you a chance of trading him and getting SOME salary relief. If Dunn hits, OK, some team in contention just might be willing to take on the remainder of his salary in hopes that he can help them out and it would only be for the remainder of the season, no long term commitment as far as salary goes because hes a FA after 14 anyway. Not playing Dunn doesn't even give you this option yet still paying his salary. Why pay De Aza $4M to sit on the bench if money is an issue.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) Really, this is your response? Neither have importance as far as a rebuild is concerned because neither have a future with this team. Your point is irrelevant, in fact its not a point at all. It's difficult to believe anyone would think that Dunn and De Aza at worst hold the same value to this rebuild.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) As long as the Sox are paying Dunn it costs the same either way unless you find a team willing to take on Dunn's salary THEN you actually save money. Why pay De Aza $4M to sit on the bench if you are rebuilding. If money is that big an issue they needed to non-tender him.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 03:09 PM) Nope. Neither are important as far as this rebuild is concerned because neither are what the Sox are rebuilding around in the first place. De Aza though is more important than Dunn.

Playing Dunn ahead of De Aza costs the Sox $19M whereas letting Dunn go would only cost them $15M.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 02:44 PM) Either this year or in the future, a team that relies on both Viciedo and De Aza as every day players, especially if one of them is the DH, is not going to contend for anything. You're missing the point. They are both more important to this rebuild than Dunn.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) Dunn isn't hindering anyone. All Viciedo has to do is stay healthy and hit and he's got his spot in LF. ADA at this point is hopefully trade bait and doesn't really factor into what Hahn is setting this team up for in the short and long term so ADA getting as many at bats is no big deal. De Aza is more important to this rebuild than Dunn, do you agree?

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 15, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) The idea behind hanging on to Dunn and trading him is this, If there was a suitor for Dunn he would most likely be gone already. Paying Dunn to stay off the team or to play for another is just dumb. The point behind playing Dunn is that you hope he plays well enough for a team to be interested in trading for him while taking on his salary. Its not about the potential return because we can all agree Dunn won't bring anything back worth hollering about. Its the best way to get rid of Dunn's contract but he has to play in order to make himself intriguing enough for a team to be willing to trade for him. Besides all that, its just bad business to flat out dump a high salary player if you ever want to sign a FA again in the future. As bad as Dunn has been he's not nearly the bust that Vernon Wells has been ( just showing it could be worse). If we have to sit through one more season of Dunn then so be it, but at least he will be playing which opens the door of potentially trading him. Again, I must say the idea of holding onto and trading Dunn is NOT about trying maximize the return. Its about finding a suitor. Of course we've been over this 1,000 times, but Dunn's contract is not hindering the Sox at all. Dunn taking AB's away from Viciedo or De Aza hinders the Sox.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 14, 2014 -> 05:48 PM) No one has ever said they can't afford it, just that they don't need it and that they aren't giving up a draft pick to sign a player and that he's a bad fit on this team and that people are talking about Ervin Santana in a best case scenario kind of way as a trade chip two years from now. If they said they couldn't afford him, you're right, I wouldn't believe them. I believe they are being cost conscious with their money. If he turns into the pitching version of Dunn he does little harm to the rebuild.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 14, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) And if he doesn't, they have the pitching version of Adam Dunn. So what. You're a great soldier for this outfit. You believe them when they tell you they can't afford a $36M player if they turn out awful.

When you drink as much as they do in some south side neighborhoods, I defy anyone over the age of 35 to go beer-for-beer, drinking non-Lite and still make it to work the next morning.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 06:16 PM) Let me rephrase this: Having De Aza as a starter going into the year is stupid and against EVERYTHING THE WHITE SOX ARE DOING. Dunn is the problem not De Aza.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 06:46 AM) Exactly. He (Dunn) also was our best offensive player last year, but don't bother trying to convince TUC of that. He's proving to be almost as big of a troll as Marty lately. Are you saying that by virtue of him being our best offensive player last year he should be kept on the 25-man roster? You have problems seeing the bigger picture.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 11, 2014 -> 11:08 AM) And no matter how many times Hahn says it and no matter how many times poster on here say it, certain people just can't get it through their heads and still expect the Sox to sign one of them. Nobody here expects it, just that it's a mistake by Golden Boy Rick.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 01:08 PM) Amusing as it is to read people same it was about the money, or about the development, or about the scouting, and picking ONLY ONE (LOL)... it was all the above. But I think it is worth pointing out that the organization and the system are not static. Staff has changed a lot the last few years, phiosophy in the draft has changed, they've signed 5 or 6 overslot guys the past 2-3 drafts, they've rebuilt the LatAm operations and are spending multiples of where they were a few years ago there, and Hahn has done a pretty great job this offseason (which started in July) of acquiring young, MLB-ready talent while losing next to nothing they'll need in the long haul. I think any GM in Hahn's position would have dealt the players he did so I'm not giving him all that much credit for that. The proof of his GM'ing ability will be how the players he received in return pan out. So long as Buddy Bell is involved in player development I'll remain skeptical of the system.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 9, 2014 -> 04:33 PM) I think some of this is true. He elected to put most of his budget to the MLB team so he took chances on guys he could sign for a low price. So in essence I think he did draft if not bad at least lower talented guys on purpose. He knew he couldn't afford the top tier. This is part of the reason I think the drafts will change as everyone will be limited in budget with slotting so the Sox will not be hurt as much. So at best we can say that Kenny executed an awful strategy just about to perfection as the major league club wallowed in mediocrity even though he tried propping it up at the expense of the farm system.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Feb 9, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) Well, it gets said every year, but if guys like Hawkins, Thompson, Mitchell, Barnum and maybe a few others were to make serious strides this season, the evaluation of the Sox farm system changes considerably and is no longer a "punchline" as the article suggests, and many who argue that it's been an organizational weakness would have to re-evaluate their assumptions. In other words, it wouldn't take much. I don't know. I think that a LOT to ask for from those you mentioned except for Barnum.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 9, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) lol. You are just flat out trolling. Why do you always make it about the person posting.