Marty34

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Mar 21, 2014 -> 01:47 PM) No kidding. We all know the Sox were awful last year and Hahn has done a hell of a job getting quality young guys through trades as well as the signing of JDA. Yet a few folks here would rather continue to point out potential negatives instead of focusing on the positives or at least potential positives . It really is a sad perspective. There are still holes and question marks but i realize rebuilds take time and am very excited to see what the youngsters are capable of. Some people can never be pleased nor stop focusing on the negatives. How sad. Aside from the Davidson trade, what has Hahn done that was not expected? By most accounts, the Cubs got a better return for Garza than he did for Peavy and he got nothing for Rios. As far as rebuilds taking time, yes they do. However, by trading for near ready prospects, they've chosen a shorter timeline for this rebuild than your run-of-the-mill one and judging by that I don't think enough was done over the winter. I don't think Hahn has done a bad job, just not enough given the timeline.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) It's not a f***ing video game Marty. You can't just be like "OH OUR TEAM WAS BAD LET'S MAKE A TRADE. I WANT CLAYTON KERSHAW AND FELIX HERNANDEZ. WE NEED PITCHING SO LET'S SIGN ALL THE BEST PITCHERS. DOESNT MATTER MONEY BECAUSE JERRY REINSDORF IS RICH" Jerry Reinsdorf is rich enough to afford a better rotation.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) As far as we can tell, Sale, Danks, Paulino, Quintana, and Johnson all have healthy arms, and ready to go. Don't judge a damn thing about pitchers spring training in Arizona. Arizona is a terrible place for spring training competition. You set your roster before you get there, and if they stay healthy, you go north with that team. Seeing the numbers out of AZ reinforces my belief that Hahn did not do enough to address the rotation this winter. It's a long season for pitchers when your home park is the Cell, if nothing else they needed an innings-eater. Also, it's an embarrassment to this rebuild that Axelrod was even invited to camp.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) Thank you for your evidence. Here's mine, according to the Marty school of providing evidence Danks, Johnson, and Paulino ≠ crater-sized holes in the rotation. What evidence do you want.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:24 PM) Lets be careful what we call top tier talent than. Turner has a lot of upside, but there is a reason that the Marlins have him on the block instead of their other young SP's. His K/BB and WHIP aren't great and his numbers are aided by playing in the park and division he does. Turner is not even table stakes for Sale, the bidding would start with Fernandez. Viciedo is probably not enough based on fit, but the Sox have other guys that would fit the bill. I agree. Wite labeled Turner top tier talent. As far as if the Sox have enough to trade for him, they probably do, but at least 20 others probably do as well and those teams are better positioned to absorb giving up that kind of talent for Turner.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) It's dry, Arizona weather and the ball doesn't move a whole lot, plus these guys are getting back into shape, working on certain pitches and locations, and any number of other miscellaneous tasks. That you are putting actual stock into these numbers - which you clearly are - is the worst thing. If they carry this with them up north and the rotation looks rough come May or June, then yes, changes will probably have to be made. I'm not saying that holes are not possible, but right now, the rotation is full and there are no question marks as to who is pitching or the talent in the rotation itself. Frankly, I still think the offense is going to take the longest. They have young pieces, but there are plenty of other areas that could and likely will need improvement into the future. No. The White Sox clearly had a great offseason. It was certainly possible for them to have a poor offseason. That didn't happen. I want to see you actually defend with evidence why the Sox offseason was poor or why there are holes in the rotation without just saying "crater-sized holes in the rotation" and "maybe we shouldn't pat Rick on the back." WHY do you feel that way? Danks, Johnson, and Paulino = crater-sized holes in the rotation.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:01 PM) That would make sense for them. I'm sure they will. This changes nothing from what I've said to you on this topic. Just a point that when it comes to the ability to acquire top tier talent the Sox should not be in the conversation unless they put Sale on the block.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) It would be nice if you would stay on topic rather than turning this into a pissing match. This was meant for eminor, right?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) Almost every publication has the Sox as one of the best, if not THE best, offseason in all of the majors. He was dealt a terrible hand and has turned it around in an accelerated manner. Catcher was tough, and speculation suggests that he really wanted McCann (actually, I think he said it or strongly implied it at one point this offseason), but the rotation is full, the Sox are stacked with talented relief arms, and they have surplus depth at almost all positions. No, the rotation looks fine. If you are basing a "crater-sized hole" based on Spring Training numbers, then that's your own problem because I can guarantee you the only numbers Ventura is paying attention to are miles per hour, total pitches, and innings pitched. He's also looking at location and command, but those aren't numbers. 'It would have been difficult for hahn not to have a "good" offseason. It's been anything but a positive spring for the Sox vaunted rotation depth. The rotation will be the biggest problem in this rebuild.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) You really have no idea how this works, do you? you're the one who thinks player track record doesn't matter when it comes to trades.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:51 PM) But the Marlins do not have leverage. If they don't want him on the major league roster, they'll lose him for absolutely nothing if they don't trade him. More than likely, teams will be willing to give up more than the Sox, but we don't know that yet. If your options are Dayan Viciedo or nothing, you are taking Dayan Viciedo. I think we know they get a better offer than Viciedo.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:44 PM) Nothing. Adding top tier talent is never a bad thing. If Turner is top tier talent, the White Sox do not have enough to trade for him without creating another hole.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) Personally, I like strikeouts. With a base runner at first, Tyler striking out means he didn't hit into a DP. Where do you rank strikeouts with a runner on third and less than two outs?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 03:39 PM) So you'd prefer they start either a guy who was even worse than him in the majors or a guy who has never played a game above A+? It's not a good option, but Tyler Flowers is absolutely the Sox best option at this point. I wish it weren't so, but it is, so there's no time to dwell. (I was wrong on this front too, but it is what it is) Coupled with the crater-sized holes in the rotation that weren't addressed it seems the pats on the back for Hahn's offseason were overdone.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) How about Viciedo, Keppinger, Thomspon and cash? Adding that garbage to the trade only devalues Viciedo.

What's wrong with the current rotation?

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Mar 13, 2014 -> 07:36 PM) I'm greedier still and looking for an 8-9-1-2 of Anderson, May, Eaton and Micah (in whatever order works best) in a few years. Speed to BURN/fantastic range. It will be difficult finding enough power at the other positions to win at The Cell with that configuration.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 12, 2014 -> 04:36 PM) A productive, detailed, solidly argued contribution as usual that in no way reflects poorly upon you for posting it. I'm sure I could have bolstered my point by using some statistic, but I did not feel it necessary.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) Paulino is the finance equivalent of a pump and dump. You try and build his value and sell him to anyone who will listen. If not, it was a million dollars (really you are paying anyone half a million to be on the roster, so you can't even really count that). He's a waste of time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Peavy was also locked into an extra year of his contract to, which in this day an age, also has a price. Right, a team friendly contract.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) Garcia. Please explain the relevance of this random question. Feldman was pitching better than Peavy at the time each was traded, yet Peavy brought the better return. Track record does matter..

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 09:50 PM) Marty, you're ignoring posts again. You're the only one that believes "the best thing that can happen is if he's awful he wont hurt the rebuild." Stop pretending five people haven't explained that AND given an example of the best case scenario that happened within the last two years. If you think teams acquire players based on track record and NOT on potential, you haven't been paying attention to ANYTHING that's happened around baseball the past five years. Would you take Arrieta and Strope or Avisail Garcia?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 08:53 PM) So now contracts matter? Strange. Yes, when a player is a free agent it's a good tool to judge how much demand there is for his services.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 07:09 PM) I don't know about you, but the name Scott Feldman screams "track record" to me. Feldman went for $6M last offseason ~3x what Paulino went for this offseason.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 06:48 PM) Again I understand that, but some of the same people who claim Paulino is going to be great and do things he has never done are the same people who said a couple of pitchers his age and even younger were doomed to get injured and regress due to age. I don't understand how he defies age. Many posters here think it's a win if a player outperforms their contract regardless of whether the team is any better. There's something wrong with an acquisition when the best thing that can be said is if he is awful it doesn't hurt the rebuild. Low reward move that in the end does nothing.