Marty34

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) Unless Paulino throws up ~120 innings of 3.8 ERA. A rental is a rental. GMs don't choose players based on name value. It's not about name value it's about track record and Paulino's track record is going to severely limit any return they may get for him. That's in a BEST case scenario.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) Yeah, for sure. It reminds me a lot of when the Cubs did the exact same thing with Scott Feldman, signing him to a low-risk, one year contract hoping he could recover from a couple consecutive injury-riddled seasons and show some of the upside that made him attractive before. When the deadline came around, all they were able to do with him was flip him for a former top prospect showing signs of rebound (Jake Arrieta) and a fireballing, pre-arbitration reliever (Pedro Strop). If you told me that one year, $6m contract was only going to return two promising, controllable pitchers and ~120 innings of 3.86 ERA production, I would have been really upset as a Cubs fan. But, I just chalk it up to typical "Hail Theo" crap. Definitely no precedent for this type of a thing working out. Scott Feldman is going to get you more in a trade than Felipe Paulino. Feldman had enough suitors last offseason to command $6M.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 04:06 PM) Paulino is a lottery ticket. He won't be around for the next run. The idea is to try to hit it rich with him. If he does well, and we aren't having a good season, he goes to get us more top notch depth in the minors. If he doesn't, he cost a million dollars more than the rookie who would have been on the roster instead. In no way, shape, or form is what Paulino does anywhere relevant to a full dollar, long term contracted, starting pitcher on the free agent market. This is a page out of the Theo and Billy handbook. It is a no risk signing. It is nothing like throwing a multi-year, eight figure per season, contract at someone. Any comparisons like that are false equivalencies and non sequitors. More like no reward signing You'd look like a damn fool trying to sell Paulino for much at the deadline. Even in a best case scenario, the other GM will say "yes, but it's Felipe Paulino . . ." This low reward signing just spins the wheels of the rebuild.

I don't think it's realistic to expect more than 150 innings from Johnson, that's if he's good. Rookie pitcher on a team going nowhere, no reason to push him.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Feb 23, 2014 -> 12:28 PM) We didn't lose out in 2012 because of DV. We lost out because Konerko and Dunn fell off a cliff after great starts, and the two pitchers who'd carried us were completely out of gas down the stretch. DV was consistently mediocre throughout the year - was actually much better than the other two in Sept.- and replacing him with Juan Pierre or whoever would NOT have made a difference - at least not in a positive way. But go ahead and keep pushing that. But we lost because Sale wasn't started in the minors the year previous? Please. Viciedo had no business playing against RH'ers after the All-Star break for a contending team.

I've seen Turner a few times now going back to late last year and other than his elite speed his other tools look only ordinary at best.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) In my opinion, Chris Sale should have spent 2011 pitching in AAA as a starter for part of the year and then been called up to the big leagues whenever an opening presented itself. He should have been aimed for 150-170 innings that year, and yes, I think that would have been a very important step in preventing the tired arm periods he suffered through during 2012. And frankly, a non-exhausted Chris Sale in 2012 able to get close to 200 innings without having to skip starts and putting up an ERA that wasn't in the 4's in the 2nd half might have given the Sox a better chance to keep pace with the Tigers...and might well have won him a cy young award alreayd. Dick Allen is right, it's far-fetched to think Sale's development was slowed in any way by how the Sox have handled him. In fact, had they started him in the minors in 2011 as you suggest, there's a very good chance the Sox do not have their best asset in this rebuild, Chris Sale's team friendly contract. As far as 2012 goes, Viciedo was allowed to get 410 plate appearances against RH'ers where he put up a .650 OPS. They lost the division because they did not fix fixable problems.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 10:57 AM) It really is tough to say at this point, there is some depth, probably 10 or so guys that could end up in a major league rotation at some point. Just off the top of your head, how does the Sox system compare to the rest of MLB when it comes to SP prospects.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 07:51 AM) Except for the potential benefit of having him throw 150+ innings this year on the chance he does earn a 2015 rotation spot and needs to be strong enough to throw 200. That's ok. I think the best place to break a pitcher in is via the pen. When in doubt look to Earl Weaver.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 08:34 PM) This is an insert from an article titled "Five biggest draft storylines" by Christopher Crawford of ESPN. He highlights my fear that Rodon and Hoffman go 1 and 2, then we are left with a tough decision at #3. 2. Who's No. 3? He may not be the lock that Rodon is at the top spot, but East Carolina right-hander Jeff Hoffman is the clear-cut No. 2 talent in the class to start the year, with a fastball that touches 97 mph and a curveball that could already be a big league offering. Hoffman is the most realistic candidate to challenge Rodon for the first pick, though Miami is likely to consider several options with the No. 2, including hard-throwing right-hander Tyler Kolek from Shepherd (Texas) HS. The third spot, which belongs to the Chicago White Sox, is very much up for debate. Most believe that catcher Alex Jackson of Rancho Bernando HS (San Diego) starts the year in that position, but the lack of a knockout tool could see Jackson slide towards the back half of the top 10. Jacob Gatewood of Clovis (Calif.) HS is the type of player the White Sox have coveted in the past, an athletic player with plus-plus power from the right side, though the concern that he may not have more than a fringe-average hit tool concerns teams. Chicago has very little pitching depth in its system, so arms such as Hartford left-hander Sean Newcomb or UNLV right-hander Erick Fedde could move their way into consideration with big campaigns; if Hoffman were to "fall" to pick No. 3, the White Sox would likely jump for joy. Is this true or not? I think it is and it's scary.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 08:47 PM) Leave Rienzo at AAA and if Paulino struggles or gets hurt Rienzo can be called up, this way Rienzo's arm is stretched out. He can stretch his arm out in the majors we aren't winning anything this year, it doesn't matter if it takes him three starts.

Two years too late. Maybe they are trying to collect the insurance . . .

QUOTE (shakes @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 03:29 PM) I think he could definitely benefit from more seasoning in AAA. I think it would be more worthwhile getting him starts there than as the swing man. He'll be 26 y.o. this season meaning it's time for him to show he can get MLB hitters out and since Paulino is blocking him in the rotation he should have a spot in the pen.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 11:07 AM) Last year, the Yankees received significant playing time from Chris Stewart, Lyle Overybay, Eduardo Nunez, Jayson Nix, Vernon Wells, Ichiro Suzuki, Travis Hafner, David Adams, and Austin Romine. Overbay's OPS was .688 and Hafner's .679, which were the best out of that group. Tell me some more about how Alex Rodriguez's contract didn't affect them. Now, considering it doesn't count against their payroll this year, while shedding a few other contracts, they were able to bring in a few new players while staying under the luxury tax. They won't be under it next year. Alex Rodriguez is wearing a Yankees World Series ring.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 08:58 AM) Not to mention the Astros. The Cubs , Astros, and Mets are both going through extremely tough rebuilds exclusively because of poor long-term contract decisions. The Yankees have been mediocre the past few years thanks to an attempt to avoid the luxury tax threshold, and they are now living the nightmare of the end of ARod, Teixeira, and Sabathia contracts that they bought along with the earlier prime years. With all due respect, Marty, I have no idea how you can look around baseball and say that albatross contracts are rarely a factor in sustained success. 10% of the league is in full disaster recovery rebuild, and at least another 10% are aging contenders with their hands tied. And these are all medium to large markets. It took the Pirates 20 years to build a winning core of players without the luxury of affording an albatross, and the Rays have traded multiple franchise-level players (Price is next) in order to avoid having to extend them. The Twins (Mauer) and Brewers (Braun) are next in line as those guys start to decline. I did not say it was not the reason for sustained success. The reason these teams had to spend money was because their farm system wasn't producing and most importantly because they had it to spend. How would the Phillies be better off if they didn't sign players to big contracts? The turnstiles kept moving. Look at the Cubs they do a full rebuild and their attendance is way down.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) I do too. I've never seen a 5+ year contract to a pitcher that I have liked. Except, ironically, Chris Sale's. Yes, they are shocking figures, but it's the price of business. Rarely is payroll mismanagement a reason why a team is not contending. A-Rod's contract with Texas was the true albatross.

$105M for Homer Bailey. Wow.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 03:28 PM) With the deals at number 9-10, I have no idea how the Davidson deal didn't make this list. I agree with you Balta. I think it was a better deal than Santiago/Eaton.

QUOTE (shakes @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 03:16 PM) Can you please keep it to one f***ing thread. You are getting all the attention you are craving over there. Some of us want to actually talk about baseball and the team the Sox have now that the spring is starting. You sound dead serious.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Gatewood is interesting because he was once touted a top ten pick. He looks incredibly raw to me but I do like drafting upside at premium positions. Would Gatewood take 2nd round money?

So Paulino is blocking Rienzo. Who would have though that? Seriously though, they should groom Rienzo as a set up guy.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) Low mileage then. Sounds like Abreu, not Santana. Also, Santana will be collecting more miles while you wait for your driver's license. Dad's a top shelf mechanic truth be told. A cooper comparison perhaps.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 01:32 PM) Sure, you want a car rotting in your driveway for two years, and probably not running once you actually need it. On the flipside, a friend of mine bought his son a used car 20 months before his 16th birthday and it's running 6 years later.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 01:24 PM) This line of thinking is akin to buying a used car at age 14, because they will be more expensive when you are 16. The light has finally switched on SS2K5.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 01:08 PM) The problem with Marty's idea is we simply don't need another mid-rotation starter. If you're putting together a championship caliber rotation, Sale as a #1, Quintana as a #3, & Johnson as a #4 works IMO. All three are young, cheap, & cost-controlled for the foreseeable future. That right there is your core. On top of that, we have an expensive Danks who has a reasonable chance of rebounding this year and becoming a strong #3 starter again. Throw Chris Beck into the mix, who should be ready by opening day 2015 IMO, and we should have 4 legitimate starters to cover the back-end of the rotation (and this assumes that Rienzo, Surkamp, & Paulino aren't factors). What we really need is another top-of-the-rotation starter, not at Sale's level, but one that can solidfy that #2 spot, especially come playoff time. Tanaka made a ton of sense for us because he could fill that void and do so long-term. Wasting money on Jimenez or Santana doesn't help us achieve that goal, and quite frankly, signing one of them to hopefully spin Quintana down the road seems counter-productive and incredibly risky. I get the logic in doing so, but those simply aren't the right guys to gamble on. A problem is they are going to have to trade a core piece in an attempt to get better. Santana replaces Quintana in that instance.