Marty34

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 28, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'd rather keep Peavy, and to a lesser extent Rios, rather than getting rid of them just for the sake of getting rid of them. Yes, shedding salary would be nice, but I don't know where the salary savings can be spent that's going to be as worthwhile as holding out for top level talent in return for trades. Play it down until 3pm on the 31st if necessary--I have a feeling some team out there will cave in on Peavy, and maybe Rios also. No reason to pull the trigger before the deadline unless somebody is offering the moon. Terrible idea.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 09:53 PM) Well, Peter Gammons did say that we're targeting pitching....as mind boggling as that is I don't think that's crazy at all. They need value regardless of pitcher/hitter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 06:35 PM) He actually threw more innings in June of that year than Crain did this year. So what.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 06:22 PM) He pitched 12 games in June and 11 games in July, and by selectively saying "2 weeks" you exclude the fact that he pitched the 2 games before that right out of the AS break that year. Including a 2 inning stint on the 15th. He threw 13.1 innings in June and 12 in July, with July having the AS break. In May he threw 13 innings in 12 outings, almost the exact same usage. They certainly didn't start slowing him down mid-June, and his July usage is very similar to his June usage and his May usage. If slowing down his usage is something smart teams do, I don't see it there? I mean, you'd be screaming about that 2 inning outing on the 15th. He threw 45 pitches total while pitching in in 3 straight games from July 15-July 17. He even had a 31 pitch, 2 inning outing in late June. It's clear that he was being handled with kid gloves when they knew he was going.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 05:50 PM) So you have other examples? Or you're BSing? I'm legitimately asking. Here's your chance to prove your case. A couple examples of smart organizations doing what you say smart organizations do. Koji Uehara pitched 4 innings in two weeks before he was traded to Texas for Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 05:37 PM) Yeah, but so is "no organization would so obviously overwork a guy on the trading block by having him throw 60 pitches over a couple days in late June". If someone's going to claim that a smart organization curtails a guys use late in June/early in July, there ought to be tons of examples since relief pitchers get traded every year. Otherwise it would be flat out irresponsible to claim that smart organizations would do that if there are zero examples, wouldn't you agree? I was trying to give the Sox the benefit of the doubt. Dumb organizations pitch Crain the way the Sox did in June.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 05:02 PM) Oh agreed. s***, look how we used Peavy Thursday. Robin definitely seems to be a guy that is going to just let guys go if they say they are good... I am not entirely opposed to Marty's point here; I think Robin's a bit reckless in the way he uses his pitchers. But generally I think it's for the right reasons. I believe smart organizations curtail Crain's usage understanding his value lies in what he returns you in a trade. That's what I find troubling here.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 03:36 PM) Cubs listening on offers for Samardzija according to Rosenthal. Great Figured as much.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 04:03 PM) I think I know the game plenty enough to trust the judgment of a professional coaching and training staff over some arrogant asshole on a message board. Anybody that second guesses professionals that much has to be so full of themselves that they can't see straight. Weird.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) Why are you assuming I would be on Balta's side? If he is correct so rarely you would have to assume all posters would agree with you, right? What are you talking about? You wanted a "more objective opinion."

Sure pitchers get hurt all the time, but what makes Crain being overused so bad is there was absolutely nothing to be gained by it.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 02:57 PM) We should have a poll of who agrees with Balta or Marty more. You know, to get more objective opinions. You agreed with me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) I guarantee you the Angels would happily trade Crain for the guy you kept asking for last offseason...Josh Hamilton. You are so seldom correct I think it deserves mention when you are.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) Then you'd have had the joy of complaining how Hahn dealt him too early and didn't get enough for him. Perhaps the return Hahn would have gotten would have put them on course to make your 90-win preseason prediction look good.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) He's also been a 60 inning pitcher in part because he gets hurt pretty regularly every year. For him, missing a month is kinda normal. If that's the case then Hahn was negligent in not dealing him earlier.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 02:15 PM) Yep maybe someone should look into his age and injury history before they make claims of overuse this year. Same guy who wanted Jones sent down which would've put Crain to use even more .If you baby the guy because he's a free agent then maybe he never racks up the gaudy numbers he put up this year and you end up hearing why isn't Crain in there ? Damned if you do damned if you don't . Damned even further by sending down Jones. Trollish behavior at best idiotic at worst. What was the purpose of overusing Crain?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) Crain would be one of the fastest blocked players out there. With so many teams not sellers, we will get nothing for him in August. Exactly.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 01:21 PM) He wasn't overworked. If he can't pitch 12 innings a month as a middle reliever, and he makes $4-5 million, you aren't getting anything worthwhile back for him. Look at the gamelogs and explain how he was overworked. Throughout his career he's been a 60 inning pitcher and as such needs to be handled with great care. They very fact that he landed on the DL with a "tired" shoulder tells you he was overworked.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 12:26 PM) Contrarian to anybody with a semblance of decency and/or knowledge about baseball. I don't think you understand the game all that much if you a.) don't believe Crain was overworked and b.) if you don't think his being overworked led to him being placed on the DL.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 09:01 AM) Marty, you've been so much more constructive lately. Why fight THIS battle? You have to know that you're just being a contrarian. Contrarian to what?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 08:41 AM) Players that don't show they can play have no value. The guy got hurt at a bad time, but to try to place blame on an injury like that is beyond silly. Pitchers get hurt on every team. Like when they are on the DL.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) He is a one inning pitcher, so multiple 3 games in a row appearances, he had one but not in June, and lack of a breather after back to backappearances, those would be heavy. June 1 was the backend of him appearing 2 in a row, he got 3 days off after that. He got 4 days off after the next one. 7 days off the one after that, and 5 days off his last one. Are these guys museum pieces that are just there for people to look at? When his only value to the team is what he brings back in a trade, yes.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2013 -> 08:12 AM) 10.1 innings in April 13.2 innings in May 12.2 innings in June Just abused What would you consider a heavy workload for Crain?

I'd like to know the reason why Crain was given such a heavy workload.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) Still, he's pitched 36 innings. Its like 12 a month. It's not overwork. That's a big workload for a guy that throws 60 inning a year and there's absolutely no justification for it.