Marty34

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:58 AM) He's just another guy because of his contract going forward. Then again, he's not because of the dearth of talent at that position, and the FA market being bereft of players at that position this off-season. His overall defense (yeah, he's made more errors but his total chances make up for, like debating Valentin vs. Royce Clayton back in the day), speed/stolen bases, throwing arm and he still has doubles power make him one of the 2-3 most valuable shortstops that are ALSO theoretically available on the trade market. When someone says he doesn't impact a game...the only way you'll notice is when he's no longer there and we'll say "wow, Beckham/Crede would have made that play" except they're not there to make it (like when Kepp was playing 2B everyday). Ramirez defensive ability is overstated. All you need to know about his value these days is he's an 8th place hitter on a terrible offensive team who is still owed ~$20M.

Ramirez is one of those players who just doesn't impact a game. He's "just another guy" now that his power has disappeared. I'd take whatever I could for him to get that money owed off the books.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:06 AM) Quintana is typically at 91. Check fangraphs. But anyway, I said Quintana was a decent #4 starter in the long run, which is high enough praise for someone with his stuff, which is rated just fine. It's mediocre, but he gets the most out of his ability. Hector Santiago is not a starter in the long term, unless you like to see WHIP ratios in the 1.50 range. I'm sorry to have to break this stuff to you guys. Quintana's 24 y.o. has thrown 244 Major League innings, averages 6 Kp9 and has a 117+ ERA. You think that's a #4 starter?

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 07:35 PM) The Phillies are petitioning MLB to show the second game tomorrow night because it coincides with Fox's exclusive window. CSN Chicago already said they'll carry both games. Why would it impact the Phillies, but not the Sox? CSN Chicago called Commissioner Reinsdorf . . . No petition necessary.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:33 PM) This is dumb. No one has to go unless they aren't going to be under contract this year. His rep as being injury prone will never be greater than right now, coming off the DL. Why risk Peavy having a off year or being injured to the point where he can't be traded. The guy is a ticking time bomb he needs to go ASAP.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:24 PM) It's almost like they have to do something with Hawkins right now, but what? Can you just pull the plug on his season, send him to Instructional League, and start all over next year? It's mind-boggling, you couldn't K at his rate if you went to the plate without a bat.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:22 PM) He's hurt, has another year and and fair value. There is zero reason to sell low on him. He'll likely be hurt again next year. He will always be labeled as injury prone which will take away from his trade value. He has to go at the deadline.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:15 PM) Maybe the next move Hahn needs to make is a minor league hitting instructor for the entire system. As long as instructor is an ex-Sox. Please continue to keep everything in-house.

Hawkins might be dangerously close to being a bust already. Remember Cubs draft pick, Earl Cunningham?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 08:47 PM) There isn't much of a reason to trade Peavy. Think like going into 2005 and sign a bunch of midlevel position players and hope for the best. This would be the wrong thing to do. Peavy absolutely has to go before the deadline, he's the one guy they cant afford not to deal because of their depth in he rotation.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 07:23 PM) I'm not seeing the consistency out of Santiago that I would like to, but I haven't been watching closely either. Has he improved? I think Santiago has improved to the point where at the very least he can be considered an intriguing SP prospect. The screwball is a difficult pitch to control so he probably is going to be a guy who throws a lot of pitches which makes me worry most about his durability, but he has the stuff for top of the rotation.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 07:05 PM) If we were looking for something to get us over the top, then yes, trading Sale for several lesser parts makes no sense. But when you need sooo many pieces, you've got to spend the resources you have to improve, or else you're looking at competing in a window where having Sale around still is unlikely. Sale is 24 though. I don't see the rebuilding taking 5 years unless Santiago and Quintana aren't the SP's they have shown they are/can be. In other words, the heaviest of lifting in this rebuild might already be done with that rotation top 3.

1. a #3 hitter 2. CF 3. 3B I think the Sox have enough pieces to fill these holes without dealing the three that matter most (Sale, Santiago, and Quintana.)

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:57 PM) Does one of you have a definition other than "makes the All-Star team at some point?" Like Steve Swisher? A modern-day version would not be a worthy piece of a package for Sale despite the lofty status of All-Star.

I'd like to see an infield of Gillaspie at 2B, Beckham at SS, and Morel at 3B for the final 50+ games. See if there is anything worthwhile in that alignment for 2014 and beyond.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 03:35 PM) Umm...there are plenty... I think we have different meanings for All-Star.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) That isn't any of our concern at this stage of the game. If we get 3 guys that become all-stars, does it really matter if Chris still ends up being the best player? What are the chances that one organization has three all-stars in their farm system? That's why you stick with Sale for the foreseeable future.

Can't deal Sale because the overwhelming chances that he'll still be the best player in any trade 5 years from now.

Morrison is a guy I think the Sox should pursue. Potentially the best #3 hitter on the market, build a package around Johnson if need be.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 08:35 PM) It was just his opinion. Just like people have the opinion that Rogers doesn't know what he's talking about. Whether he was lazy or the hardest working guy in baseball, Kenny Williams left the White Sox with an immense mess that will take years to fix. For that, I say: Good riddance. This is absolutely on the mark, can't be disputed.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 09:33 AM) Rogers actually helps rank players for BA. How he got that Orlando was such a stud was from Dave Wilder. They aren't the only team that works that way with BA. It is always a good idea to take BAs rankings with a huge grain of salt. Wilder was using them to cover up his scam, another team may use them for other reasons like to bolster trade value of a prospect or to even knock a player down a peg or two perhaps for motivation. It would be almost impossible to know every player, and the bust rate is far higher than in other sports. Guys like Keith Law have a cult following, but the reality is he is a failed MLB front office guy. By this statement then how can you have any faith in who the Sox choose given their woeful track record.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 09:03 PM) Reinsdorf had a big beef with Guillen. A huge beef, as loyal as Reinsdorf is, disloyalty is something he does not understand. Not only was Ozzie disloyal not telling Oney to shut up, the way he left and refusing to manage while under contract gives him no shot of ever managing the White Sox again unless they are sold. Chairman Reinsdorf knew when he hired Guillen as manager the end would be ugly (see how he left as a player.) Everything I've heard says there's no problems between Hahn, Guillen, or Reinsdorf.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 08:17 PM) Reinsdorf still had concerns with the potential hire. Ultimately Collins is one who backed out, but let's not pretend Reinsdorf had nothing to do with the final decision. Regardless, do you really think Reinsdorf would want to deal with Ozzie and his clan again? If Reinsdorf had a problem with re-hiring Collins there would be no contract offer. Reinsdorf has no beef with Guillen. KW had just as many detractors in the front office, if not more, than Guillen. As far as the Guillen twitter fiasco goes, yes that was bad, but nothing compared to KW hiring his friend (Wilder) who embezzled money from the organization.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 01:52 PM) First off, KW has been Hahn's boss for over a decade. Hahn isn't going to slight KW by hiring his nemesis, even if KW leaves the organization. On top of that, I'm sure Reinsdorf wasn't pleased with Ozzie's exit and while he may not dislike him, he'd probably like to avoid Ozzie as manager again a la Doug Collins. Doug Collins was signed, sealed and delivered as Bulls coach before Tibs, then he backed out.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 01:11 PM) Just because they didn't have a beef doesn't mean Hahn would consider bringing him back. And he wouldn't have offered Ventura an extension if the story was true as was presnted. The funny thing about this thread and Ozzie, is supposedly one of the beefs Loria had with Ozzie was that he was lazy. Ome unnamed Marlin player did say all Ozzie cares about is money. You think my source doesn't know what's going on? To each their own.